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That's why we(3rd world countries) do love NANO!

Nano is environmental friendly while Bitcoin demands huge amounts of energy that keeps growing year after year, sometime its going to be the white elephant in the room and nobody will ignore it. Nano is instant and feeless, while Bitcoin LN isn't. Nano is decentralized, Bitcoin is getting more and more centralized day after day, just a few mining pools are handling a considerable amount of the network processing power. Nano is easier to understand and use, try to teach the average joe what is blockchain+harsh+mining+forks+segwit+lightning network+future jerry-rigs... probably you will kept talking alone.
Right here in Brazil Nano is getting way more popular while Bitcoin enthusiasts are migrating to Nano, I think this pattern is being repeated in Venezuela and others South American countries. I think that the trend is an exponencial growth of Nano in these 3rd world countries because nobody can afford the fees of another coins in these countries(1 dollar of fee is way too much when the wage is less than 290 USD/month) and we didn't talk about the speed of the transaction(nobody wants to get stuck in the limbo while your money is getting devalued, remember 30 days of work = less than 290USD)and the "user friendly interface"(great parcel of the population barely knows how to read, write and speak).
Another thing is that right here a great parcel of the population doesn't have access to a banking account or a credit card, and those who haves are getting raped by the abusive taxes and massive bureaucracy. To have some idea, lots of us barely haves a RESIDENT RECEIPT because our lands are not legally bought(because of taxes and bureaucracy that nobody understands).
I think that Nano will become more and more popular in these poor countries and its good because Nano can help us A LOT!
Now, think about it: "Which company does really movement HUGE AMOUNTS of money? Those that sell expensive luxury cars that only 1% of the world can afford, or those that produce and sell cheap and accessible vehicles for the MASSES?"
Ps: sorry for the bad english, I'm not a native speaker and learned how to read/write/speak by myself.
submitted by Waion to nanocurrency [link] [comments]

ECOCRYPTO

ECOCRYPTO
ECOCRYPTO
FOR GREEN CRYPTOCURRENCY MINING
FUTURE OF CRYPTOCURRENCY
DEPENDS ON ECOLOGICAL MINING
"CRYPTOCURRENCY DEPENDS ON ECOLOGICAL MINING"
Donate BTC to support awareness enquiry:
1EaSG3WmY5fRXedhy9tbbJK3tGftKp4sAZ
Sourcece: https://cryptobriefing.com/green-crypto-mining-38bn-future/
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· Green Crypto Mining Will Define The Industry’s $38bn Future
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ANALYSIS

Green Crypto Mining Will Define The Industry’s $38bn Future

Energy usage will drop by design thanks to these critical industry developments.

📷By Nick Hall On Aug 10, 2018
1,779
1
In March this year, the sky officially fell in for Bitcoin miners. With the slump in prices and the extraordinary energy consumption it takes to mine the coins, Fortune revealed that mining a Bitcoin cost as much as buying one. Green crypto mining wasn’t even on the radar for most people until earlier this year.
That was back in March and they were the good times. Morgan Stanley revealed in April that Bitcoin miners would lose money if Bitcoin slipped below $8,600, even with low electricity figures factored in.
A recent study by Coinshare showed that the numbers attributed to the Bitcoin mining industry have been grossly exaggerated and the energy consumption is approximately 50% of the claimed 70TWh. But the numbers are still too high in terms of the financial outlay and the environmental impact of mining cryptocurrency.
Mining doesn’t begin and end with Bitcoin – and although the consensus is (mostly) set in stone, the way we create the energy needed to extract the next part of the puzzle isn’t. Which is why green crypto mining is the ONLY solution to the diminishing returns issue: more cost, for less reward, will eventually lead to an abandonment of the mine, just as it did for gold miners in California in 1848-49.
We’re not looking for one single solution either. We need four separate ones:
  1. A lighter consensus algorithm
  2. Cloud-based cryptocurrency mining.
  3. Renewable, cheaper energy sources to support physical ‘mines’.
  4. Brutal consolidation in the mining industry.

What is cryptocurrency mining?

The Proof-of-Work (PoW) protocol was popularized by shadowy Bitcoin founder Satoshi Nakamoto, building on earlier work by a variety of computer scientists including Hal Finney, and it’s a two-stage process to validate transactions and keep a flow of Bitcoins entering the market. Blocks of data are parsed off and, with Bitcoin, they contain about 1MB. Each block is then locked and coded.
Miners then compete to solve the puzzle and provide the 64-digit hexadecimal key code that it then has to match with a corresponding ‘nonce’, numbers used only once, to claim the reward for unlocking the block and mine Bitcoins. There’s a small fee for validating the transactions, but the Bitcoin miners are really like the old gold miners and they’re after the big paydays.

Why is Bitcoin mining expensive?

In the old days, Bitcoin mining was easy. Back in 2009, a standard desktop computer could mine up to 200 Bitcoin a day. But speed is everything and Bitcoin mining turned into an arms race as Bitcoin soared and the well-funded miners went to war.
Companies like Bitmain, Bitfury and Vogogo spotted a gap in the market and brought professionalism to the Bitcoin mining industry. The Wild West days fell by the wayside and suddenly a standard computer chip would take 98 years to mine one coin, as the super fast rigs of the new breed simply stomped the casual miner into the dust.
The cryptocurrency mining industry even caused the great computer graphics card drought of 2017-2018 as demand for GPUs literally outstripped supply. Used cards were even selling above sticker price and the shelves in-store were stripped bare, but the big guns were already spending tens of millions of dollars to put these home brew operations out of business.
These aren’t computers anymore, they are mission control centers and the power it takes to keep them running is a serious issue for the company’s bottom line and the environmental lobby.
So the industry is looking for a number of different green crypto mining solutions, that will gel together in some haphazard way to form the future of the cryptocurrency market.
The main obstacles are:

1. A greener algorithm

It may be hard to visualize the blockchain itself, but we don’t need to. Technology almost always gets lighter, smaller and slimmer. The same needs to happen to block production.
Blockchain is middleware and it needs to be slimmed down, without sacrificing security or functionality. That’s an ongoing evolutionary process, as it was with smartphones, and the blockchain we’re using in 20 years will likely have little in common with today’s code.
Proof-of-Stake consensus algorithms have been pitched as one way of reducing crypto’s carbon footprint. Instead of competing for block rewards, producers would take turns, weighted by the size of their stake in the network.
Staking is unlikely to catch on in the Bitcoin community, but it has many supporters with Ethereum as well as other cryptocurrencies.. That would make the whole validation process more efficient and cheap.

2. Cloud-based cryptocurrency mining

There are mining firms that are still investing millions of dollars in physical equipment and taking on all the sunk costs, when the Cloud is simply taking over the world of advanced computing.
Cloud-based cryptocurrency mining companies are already selling packages to the general public and the Cloud offers increased security, speed and essentially a small slice of the world’s computing power, rather than the machines you buy, install and power up. It also potentially offers AI integration that could leave the traditional cryptocurrency miners hopelessly panning for gold in a dead river.
The Cloud has made self-driving cars and robots a reality. It can certainly ramp up the speed of calculations and leave even a multi-million dollar mining rig trailing in its wake.
The switch to Cloud-based mining is good news for the environment, too, as the power demands would move to localities with the cheapest energy. Without these wild spikes in energy consumption and without these concentrated mines, the main complaints about the industry will simply cease to be an issue.

3. Renewable, cheap energy for grand-scale mines

Cloud-based cryptocurrency mining looks like the obvious solution, but it’s the final cost that determines the methodology when it comes to crypto mining and there is more than one way to do this.
Technically, the likes of Elon Musk could turn the arid sub-Saharan scrubland into the biggest and most prosperous cryptocurrency mine in the world with a vast array of solar panels and Tesla PowerPack batteries to keep it running through the night.
Cheap land and free energy means that hardware would be the only major cost to consider in this instance. Alternatively, a State-sponsored mining firm in a smaller nation could easily co-opt hydroelectric or solar providers to work with them to reduce energy costs. Even the ones that use grid power can select the world’s cheapest nations and bulk buy energy in blocks.
Potentially, then, we could still have the grand-scale mines that bring economy of scale and environmentally-friendly energy production to the world of cryptocurrency mining.

4. Brutal consolidation

It does not matter how the industry develops, or if Cloud computing or giant mines are the future, the days of the home cryptocurrency miner are numbered.
Just like the mom and pop mines of the goldrush days gave way to corporate giants with drilling and excavation machinery that made the old pick and shovel look slightly ridiculous, the same will happen in cryptocurrency mining.
Competition will continue to grow, the margins will likely drop even further and the flagrant energy use of today’s cryptocurrency miners simply won’t be an option. Miners that don’t streamline their operations and adopt some form of green crypto mining process will simply run at a loss until they go out of business.
Bil Tai is the Chairman of Hul 8, the North American arm of Bitfury Group and one of the biggest suppliers of cryptocurrency mining equipment of the world. Even he expects just 5-10 giant mining companies to survive the impending cull.
“It’s totally different this year,” he told Bloomberg. “The bitcoin mining industry was this mysterious, dark, cottage industry. It’s about to grow up and scale institutionally.”
There’s a dark side to these tech giants emerging, as they will technically have the power to exert an influence on a coin’s value, not just its creation. That is a problem the industry will have to examine at some point. This simple danger, though, is not enough to turn back the tide of progress.
So, we can expect to see a handful of mining companies dominate the industry as they make the best use of the available technology.

Conclusion: Green Crypto Mining Isn’t An Option: It’s The Only Option

One way or another, the environmental issues that dog the cryptocurrency mining industry are set to disappear.
It will be the free market that drives down that energy usage, rather than regulations and sanctions. The days of the home crypto miner are simply coming to an end, though, as the industry matures and large companies descend and fight for dominance in what could become a $38 billion a year industry by 2025.
That comes with its own set of tradeoffs, especially for philosophical hardliners. Like it or not, a leaner, greener cryptocurrency mining process is just around the corner, and big business is going to create it.
ECOCRYPTO
FOR GREEN CRYPTOCURRENCY MINING
FUTURE OF CRYPTOCURRENCY
DEPENDS ON ECOLOGICAL MINING
"CRYPTOCURRENCY DEPENDS ON ECOLOGICAL MINING"
Donate BTC to support awareness enquiry:
1EaSG3WmY5fRXedhy9tbbJK3tGftKp4sAZ
submitted by yakutami01 to btcgreen [link] [comments]

Bitcoin will be a success when average people don't notice it anymore.

Air travel, 120 years ago, was unheard of, not even in the fancies of mainstream working stiffs. 10 years later the Wright brothers lit a fire in the imaginations and passions of tinkerers, through a long series of experiments, successes and failures, millions fly every day with more worries of TSA abuse than an unintentional landing somewhere other than a runway.
There are still geeks like me who love the thril of flight and awe of harnessing nature, as there will always be geeks that love the intricacies of hashes, clients, mining rigs and exactly how/why/when a fork happened or didn't happen, but when most people don't have to think about BTC, that's when it's won.
The Credit Card (and debit cards following suit) didn't exist before 1950, now it's the default choice for purchasing. Hell, I bought a $2.25 espresso on my visa debit yesterday because I forgot to stop at the ATM first. The first CCs were unreliable and not widely accepted, now their use is subconscious.
I see a (near) future where I don't have to think about BTC. Currently, i can't use bitcoin without thinking "I'm going to use bitching Bitcoin now". It's fascinating to me, but I don't want to think about using it, I just want to go about my business. I forsee my paycheck being direct deposited to my Mega"Bank" acct, in whatever currency is in vogue with my employer, and immediately converted to my currency of choice (coffe-bean futures notes?). It stays there securely until I instruct my Virtual personal banker to pay my electric bill, then I go fill my car and swipe my debit card to send the station 2 hours of my pay. At dinner I scan the QR code and send 4 hours of pay to cover the meal. All the while not giving a damn that it's BTC under the layers of convenience that have been built.
I'm sitting in a cheap hotel room with no wifi, I know, what century is this? Barbarians.... Anyway, I activated the cellular service on my iPad, it took 5 minutes to punch in all the data they wanted. WTH do they need my mailing address? Oh yeah, I'm using a debit card....fraud protection. I still had to wait about 5 minutes for it to verify, I could have avoided all the typing (which I couldn't use chrome's auto-fill on the iPad's forms) with a QR code and my smart-phone. In the future I see a sign-in that basically means "yes, I authorize AT&T to charge my acct X for this service. 2 factor authentication to my phone could be an easy layer of security on top of that.
TL;DR; BTC is fascinating, can't wait till it's 2nd nature to use it.
Edit, removed the bitchy tone....
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The Youth Compensation Scheme

Lately I have been entertaining an idea that will sound radical to most people. I believe however, that it may be the best option we have to help stabilize our Western society. I call this idea, the Youth Compensation Scheme. The idea is quite simple: Upon graduating high school or upon reaching their 18th birthday, every young person receives a lump sum payment from the government.
I'm sure this idea outrages people. "Great, another handout!" They will say. But consider this: Our current economic system is rigged in favor of a gerontocracy, a demographic of people born just after the second world war who believe it to be their royal prerogative to spend the sunset of their lives golfing, visiting bed and breakfast hotels, going on cruises to the Caribbean and dining in expensive restaurants. This represents a tremendous cultural shift in our society and it's not what the retirement scheme was originally intended to enable. The government originally began paying social security because people who were unemployable due to frailty suffered abject poverty. Today retirement benefits are a reward for being old.
The central idea behind the Youth Compensation Initiative is that young people are a victim of an intrinsic unfairness: They are brought into a world that is owned by old people, without having a say in the matter. As far as we're aware, young people can't opt out of being born. Upon birth it becomes inevitable however that they will eventually have to garner an income for themselves. To accomplish this they are forced to sell their labor to companies. If we trace the chain of ownership, we find that those companies are typically owned by a consortium of old people. You could consider this to be a method of breeding slaves, who are manumitted upon reaching the age of 65.
"But society has always worked this way and young people will eventually reap the benefits." The counterargument goes. But this is of course not true. A significant segment of young people will never reach the age of 65. Other young people will die within a few years of becoming part of the owning class of elderly. Finally, an injustice does not turn into a kind of justice simply because the victim is free to eventually turn into a perpetrator himself.
There is a second issue to consider, which is that the scheme as we have come to know it is becoming unsustainable. The retirement bubble will soon fall apart, as the stock market has been propped up to ridiculous heights. To soothe the elderly, the property bubble has been inflated to ridiculous heights too. Any suggestion that young people should be kept from borrowing ridiculous amounts of money just to buy a house, or that the tax code should not reward people for their enormous mortgages, led to panic among the babyboomers because all their paper wealth might vaporize as a consequence. In other words, there's no guarantee that today's young people will once turn from victims of greed into its perpetrators.
The most important issue to consider however, is that old people have garnered the wealth they have today by destroying the future of their own children and grandchildren. The threat of climate change has been known about for decades now, but no serious attempt has been made to reign in its consequences. Similarly, young people will be unable to eat fish because the oceans have been depleted and there is no guarantee that the fish populations will recover as the fundamental oceanic ecosystem has been severely damaged.
Young people are also dealing with mineral resources that have been squandered by previous generations. Old people had access to cheap oil, coal, gas and various metals. What young people inherit from this is a series of gaping holes and artificial lakes in the landscape, a plastic soup in the ocean, as well as entire swathes of land that can't be farmed because of the toxic waste in the soil. We see no indication that old people sought responsible use of these resources. The American city is designed to be dependent upon cars.
Old people enjoyed their high life expectancies, because they benefited from antibiotics. Today the bacteria around us are developing antibiotic resistance at an extreme rate. A large part of this problem is attributable to the fact that old people wasted antibiotics on factory farm animals kept in small cages. Americans aged 45-64 have an obesity rate of 40 percent. They used antibiotics to sustain a diet that flatters their palate but makes them sick. If old people had used antibiotics sparingly, our descendants would have been able to treat ailments like tuberculosis and gonorrhea. Today it looks likely instead that we will return to the death rates of the preindustrial era. Childbirth or a simple surgery will become life-threatening again.
"Well, the old people had no way of knowing!" You might argue. But consider this: The English parliament was presented with a petition in 1376 calling for the banning of bottom trawling, because it was seen as a wasteful exploitation of the oceans. The fishers harvested such an abundance of fish that they had no good clue what to do with them and simply resorted to feeding them to factory farm animals. Medieval people similarly banned the burning of coal, because of the pollution it caused. The concept of climate change has been known about since the 19th century, but people never took the threat seriously.
I'm in my mid-twenties today, so I will already be dealing with the consequences of this unprecedented wasteful squandering of the world's natural resources. There are people coming into existence today however, who will have their entire lives characterized by the ignorant greed of those who preceded them. My generation is already struggling with the consequences of greed, but this problem will only be much worse for those who are children today. I thus consider it necessary to implement a Youth Compensation Scheme, to ensure that young people today will have a chance to survive and to have a life worth living.
When the Titanic began to sink, people famously urged that women and children should be saved first. They represent the future after all. Children become adults and women are tasked with giving birth to and raising them. Today we're faced with the prospect of an entire civilization sinking. For whatever reason, the idea that saving children should now have precedence over saving the elderly is considered outrageous. We're living in a society characterized by an inversion of traditional mortality.
Consider the anger provoked by the very simple idea that elderly people who have lived happy lives and do not wish to spend the rest of their lives as a burden on their community should be allowed to choose to end their lives. Why do we expect people to accept being held alive, caged in bodies that no longer function? Similarly, consider the outrage provoked by the idea that student loans should be forgiven. Why do we consider it acceptable for unemployed pilots to remain stuck forever with debts that are impossible to pay back? We're quite happy for them to forego having children because of some distorted concept of what can be considered "fair".
The most important thing to consider about a youth compensation scheme is that it allows us to prepare ourselves for the future that lies ahead of us. Consider the following fact: I live in a neighborhood that's four meter beneath sea level. It's clearly an unsustainable place to live. However, because my town is poor, people here struggle to leave. I work in a different town and commute four hours every day.
It's difficult to relocate however, because I'm stuck in an unusual situation: I have a high amount of savings (thanks Mr. Nakamoto!), but my current job contract is for half a year. It's very hard to find a good place to rent a house however. Most places expect you to have some predictable income, even for a very cheap dwelling. A mortgage is not a good option for now either. What am I supposed to do? Nobody has an answer. Society expects me to live hand to mouth, because that's how most young people live. A Youth Compensation Scheme would result in a large number of young people who can simply pay a year worth of rent up front. It's practically impossible for me right now to find a place that's willing to make such a deal with me, because they're not used to my situation.
Another obvious outcome of a Youth Compensation Scheme would be the simple fact that many young people can buy houses again. When young people can buy houses, they can start families. As a result, our population can stabilize at a sustainable level, rather than imploding until we eventually become dependent upon migrants to keep our economy functioning. Perhaps most important is the simple fact that young people would be able to move to places where they can find decent jobs, or cheap houses. The city I live in has high unemployment and mostly blue collar jobs, so I'm inevitably forced to look elsewhere as they wouldn't hire someone like me for such a thing. The economic damage caused by the fact that young people have no assets is rarely discussed.
Is the Youth Compensation Scheme costly? I don't think so. I see a very simple way to fund the scheme: Stop funding college education. Rather than handing young people subsidized loans if they're willing to attend college or artificially keeping the cost of college tuition low as we do in my country, let them experience the cost of their decisions themselves. If you wish to study women's studies or sociology feel free to do so, but now it's your own money you're wasting. How many young people will still bother listening to the drivel of a neurotic old nulliparous hag, if it's not the government's money they're wasting but their own money instead? A lot of economic black holes would be closed.
Important to understand is that just as poor people spend a dollar more efficiently than rich people do, every dollar spent on young people generates far higher returns than every dollar spent on old people. A twenty year old man who can afford revalidation training after an accident will generate far greater economic returns than a seventy year old man who can afford such training. A young man given 20,000 euro might use it to set up his own business. What does an old man do with such money? He buys a boat.
"But young people will irresponsibly squander the money!" You say. I don't believe this to be the case. To start with, young people who want to irresponsibly squander money can already do so. It's called credit card debt. What young people can't do right now is responsibly use money, because they don't have the means to responsibly use money. If we genuinely believe that most young people would irresponsibly squander money they have access to, we should respond to that by rendering off limits to them all the payday loan companies, all the college loan schemes, all car loans, mortgages and assorted loans. But for whatever reason, I don't see old people arguing in favor of that. If we genuinely fear young people would squander the money, there's a simple solution to that: Only make the money available to high school graduates. This would eliminate most idiots from the program.
The most important outcome of the Youth Compensation Scheme is that young people would be given the means to prepare for the future that lies ahead of them. Imagine fifty young people in the Netherlands believe their society is going to collapse and that their best option is to migrate to Finland, Scotland or the Baltic states and embark on setting up self-sufficient communities there. How would they go about doing that? They have no method to do so. Estonia would love to have fifty young Dutch people move to a rural community filled with old people and help revitalize it, but those young Dutch people would have no means to do so, because they have no savings. On the other hand, if every young person received 20,000 euro on their eighteenth birthday, the lot of them would have a million dollar to set up their endeavor with.
Young people have a habit of setting up innovative projects. Old people on the other hand, invest their money conservatively, because they have a shorter time horizon. If something takes twenty years to pay off, you don't embark on such a project if you're seventy years old. As the world around us begins to change rapidly because of the damage we caused, it's clear that new innovative projects are necessary. We need highways designed for velomobiles, meat and mushrooms you can grow at home in a petri dish, oceanic seaweed-shelfish permaculture projects and unmanned drones flying over third world countries dropping off packages of anticonception and psychedelics.
Consider the very simple case of Vitalik Buterin. Vitalik learned about Bitcoin at age 17 from his father. Around age 20 he dropped out of college, in exchange for 100,000 dollar from Peter Thiel. He began developing Ethereum. A month ago, the United Nations completed a project that sent 10,000 Syrian refugees money through Ethereum, giving them access to financial markets and thereby allowing them to build up a future for themselves in the refugee camps they live in. This was possible, because Peter Thiel used his money to enable a young man with high potential to pursue his vision for the future. Ethereum will soon move to a prove of stake model, the result of which will be that we will have an energy efficient investment vehicle that will help render the gold, silver and bitcoin mining industries obsolete.
The question we're faced with is very simple: Do we believe young people deserve a future of their own? If we do, then it's time we give them the opportunity to build a future for themselves. If on the other hand, we believe young people exist solely as a source of cheap labor for the elderly, then we don't have to change anything and you can disregard everything I just said.
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[Table] IAmA: We Are the Hosts of the Let's Talk Bitcoin! Show! We just spent 4 days at Bitcoin2013, Ask Us Anything!

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Date: 2013-05-24
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Hi all! I was wondering, what do you think it would take to get bitcoin from a niche currency used mainly by internet denizens to go mainstraim? I know the slow creep of more small companies accepting bitcoin helps, but what do you think that final cusp will be, and will it ever come to that? Thanks for taking the time to do this! There are several potential tipping points, but my favorite one is a large corporation accepting Bitcoin.
Amazon has an incredibly small operating margin, less than 1% - They have more than that in transaction costs, so if they were to accept Bitcoins for product and offer Bitcoins as payment to their affiliates it would cause a rush of other companies to jump onboard for the same reasons.
Once that happens with one large company, it sets a precedent. Doing something new is scary, and when the regulatory environment is uncertain like it is with Bitcoin the choice to accept could potentially cost you a lot of money later if it's retroactively made not OK and the value of the currency plummets.
But once a company like Amazon or Google jumps in, they have enough political swing and momentum that attacking Bitcoin becomes attacking them, and they'll fight that tooth and nail if it's saving them money.
Another example of a tipping point would be a country, ANY country, adopting it as their formal currency OR issuing a new currency with Bitcoins as the transparent backing of it. With bitcoin you can have a functional gold standard, because the gold doesn't need to be hidden from sight.
It is the hiding that makes gold standards dangerous - The people who issue currency with the gold as backing have no reason to issue the correct amount when only they know how much is out there, and how much gold they have.
I guess the Supreme Court has decided this does not apply to taxes, which is crap. Or are you talking about other countries? Thank you :) I actually mean something along the lines of "It is illegal to trade dollars for any cryptocurrency that does not have a real name and social security associated with it"
Will bitcoins ever be able to be traded like other recognized currencies in similar ways to Forex? More specifically, will there ever be retail brokers offering margin trading accounts that allow you to buy and sell bitcoin with leverage? There are already really small niche sites you can trade Bitcoin at leverage with, but it's just a bad idea. With a "normal" commodity market, like say chickens, if you think chickens are undervalued and want to profit from them you can buy forward production of say, a million chickens. Then when the option comes due, if you're on the profitable side of the trade you can essentially sell it for cash and the chickens never need to be delivered. In that way, it almost doesn't matter if the chickens ever existed to begin with because you never intended to take posession. With Bitcoin, it's different - Converting a bitcoin options contract into US dollars, yen, whatever actually is more expensive and time consuming than just "accepting delivery" of the bitcoins themselves. You can still sell them for whatever currency you want, but it is at the time of your choosing rather than at the point of settlement. What that means is that if you sell an option and the Bitcoins don't really exist, you could be screwed. You either default or buy them at market price which can be very painful given how volatile the pricing is right now. It is a bad idea to play with leverage in Bitcoin because if you lose, you potentially lose very big. Additionally, it's bad to buy an option because you introduce the possibility of the counterparty (supply) not being able to deliver, whereas if you just bought Bitcoins you have the Bitcoins.
Do you believe bitcoin is important locally as well as on the internet? If so, how are you promoting bitcoin in your local communities? Cryptocurrencies (of which Bitcoin is the most prominent) are the first real competition to the types of money we've used all our lives. With Dollars, Yen, Whatever - Ultimately there are a handful of people who get to decide how and why the currency should be managed.
If they did a good job, it might be fine - But the reality is the decision made affecting all users of the currency are to the benefit of a very few , at the cost of the many.
Bitcoin is different - The rules that govern it, are the rules that govern it. Nobody can break them, and if they're ever broken it's because more than 51% of the distributed power in the system (anyone can buy a mining rig and join this group). For me, that's incredibly important. Rules should apply evenly to everyone because otherwise they're not rules at all.
Local communities can benefit because it removes payment processors from merchant relationships, removes chargeback risk, and basically acts like Cash on the internet.
What are some of the more exciting things you (each of you?) envision for Bitcoin in the short to medium term? Discounts :) We've been talking about the deflationary business model, and during this period where the value is going to go up pretty fast (over the next several years) as adoption ramps up, businesses are going to be giving major discounts to those who choose to spend them.
From the merchants perspective, this is actually a huge win - They get to have lower prices than their US Dollar (or local currency) competitors, and the value of the Bitcoins they receive goes up over time instead of going down with printed currencies. Once this becomes pervasive in the Bitcoin economy, it will mean that even at those discounted prices they are STILL profitable because their suppliers are also offering them discounts to pay in Bitcoin.
Right now we're at the beginning of this cycle, you can see BitcoinStore.com is attempting it (Disclosure - They have sponsored us in the past, we run a 30s advertisement for them per show) but it's hard to be the first one doing it because it looks like you're sacrificing yourself when really it's just the model that makes the most sense.
Not to be the doom and gloom person but in the future what do you think will/would be the "last nail in the coffin" for Bitcoin? It depends what you mean by "last nail in the coffin"
How did you meet/find Andreas and Stephanie and how did you persuade them to be part of your show? I put out a call for staff several months ago, Andreas found me through that and joined the team initially as a correspondent providing expertise and commentary while Mt.Gox was having a lot of problems. Once we re-started the show as a twice-weekly, he graciously offered to join the hosting staff and gladly took him up on it.
I found Stephanie through her show Porc therapy, and a listener named Justus - He mentioned she did voicework, and I hired her to do some of our early introductions and advertising spots. When we went through the re-organization I offered her an occasional hosting role, and never bothered finding other hosts because I was so happy with our dynamic and varied viewpoints.
Both of the other hosts on the show are real professionals, and it's been my distinct pleasure to work with them.
Thanks for responding! Andreas is my fave (though I enjoy yours and Stephanie's comments too). Everybody has their favorite :) I think the fact that we all have people disagreeing with us at times means we're doing the job, and providing multiple and varied perspectives.
What recording tools are you using? We started off using Skype, Virtual Audio Cables (VAC) and Adobe Audition (creative suite)
Now we use Mumble instead of Skype, but the rest is the same.
I edit the host segments for content (sometimes we go on and on and on) and I edit the interviews for presentation, rarely removing any content. Many times the skillset that enables you to have a really smart idea is not the same skillset that lets you present that idea, perfectly, the first time. Our interview subjects tell me all the time "I love how smart I sound" and I get to say "You are smart, I just removed the brain processing noises"
Assuming bitcoin reaches critical mass, how does bitcoin cope with the criticism of rewarding early adopters? Do you see a potential uproar about inequity? Is there outrage against people who bought Apple stock at $30? Bitcoin is a currency that right now, and for the next few years, acting like an IPO. People who got in early got in cheap, but there was a whole lot of risk because people weren't using it much, there wern't vendors accepting it, so the use case is much more speculative.
We're very much still in the early adoption phase right now - Less than %.01 of internet users are Bitcoin users, as that number grows while the number of coins being added to the total pool grows at a much slower rate, the price per coin has to go up. If Bitcoin fails and everybody abandons it, this works the opposite way - but it actually solves a number of problems (microtransactions, fees, international money transfers, automated payment systems) so I'm not super concerned about that.
One of my favorite quotes, by Douglas Adams.
>It is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent >blindingly obvious. The cry 'I could have thought of that' is a very >popular and misleading one, for the fact is that they didn't, and a very >significant and revealing fact it is too.
What do you make of the download trend of the bitcoin client software in China? Isn't this a big story? China has lots of restrictive controls on their local currency, so Bitcoin has a real use case there. This is one of many scenarios where given even 1% adoption, the price must go very much above where it is now.
You commented on a recent episode about how Satochi Dice was going to block US traffic to the site due to uncertain regulations. Can't bitcoin work around that? If you send bitcoin to the addresses of the various bets - it still works right? Thanks for your show - I await each new podcast. Yes, if you already have the specific betting addresses it doesn't matter where you are in the world. It is only the website that does not allow US IPs, they did this to be very clear they were trying to respect the US gambling laws.
I spoke with Erik Voorhees about this among other things at the conference, you can find that interview here Link to letstalkbitcoin.com
I'd like to thank all three of you for doing this podcast, it's always thought provoking and fun to listen to. Plus, Stephanie does have a very sexy voice... But I do have a question, Right now, I don't know the answer to that question.
How do miners determine which transactions will be confirmed first and which get put to the back of the line? Shouldn't they be confirmed in a 'first come, first serve' basis? But the development team has made it clear they're moving towards a market-based mechanism where Miners set the minimum transaction fee they will accept, and process on a first-come/highest-fee model. People who want their transaction to process fast will put a higher fee and it will be prioritized, while people who don't care about delivery time will be able to send no fee and be subsidized by those paying higher fees.
*edit: As well, do you still plan on using some time on the show to go into more detail about mining? I think it was mentioned a few weeks ago that the topic might be explored in further detail. There will be fewer miners who accept free or very low fee transactions, so there you go.
How would Bitcoin change our financial system as we know it? In the same way the automobile changed the horse-and-buggy system as they knew it. If you play out the logic, one functionally obsoletes the other. I was talking with a financial reporter the other day who has been coming around to bitcoin, and he said to me "You know, if they were building the banking system from scratch today I think this is pretty close to what it would look like"
Andreas answered a question below about bitcoin and self driving cars, fixing spam on the internet by using Bitcoin addresses with tiny amounts of BTC in them to prove you're a real person and not a single-use bot, there are so many crazy and impossible things that become actually probable when you're talking in the context of a world built on decentralized, rules-based, cryptographically secured, instantly transmittable, person to person internet cash.
I have never been so hopeful for our future as I am now that I've thrown my days into bitcoin. Bitcoin 2013 was a fine conference and a wonderful experiance, so many very smart people have quit their jobs or left their studies to do the same thing I have.
We know we're building the future, and it's a better one than we have today.
Have any of you heard about how in Africa much of the exchange in value is done with mobile phone minutes? It seems to me - whatever the US attempts to do with Bitcoin - there will be other places that it will bubble up in. What about Argentina and other places where they actually understand what damage a desperate government can do to a currency? I would agree with you. Until recently it's been impossible to use Bitcoins on a "dumb cell phone" - That changed recently with Link to phoneacoin.com and others.
Bitcoin solves problems that the world has had for decades, it takes the power to destroy the currency away from government so they cannot do it no matter how much they want to, or how desperately they think they need to.
No government wants to destroy a currency, they just don't want to acknowledge they've trapped themselves with debt and have no way out.
Who invented Bitcoin? What is to stop whoever did so initially issuing themselves the equivalent of $79 zillion in Bitcoin currency prior to it taking off? Is there commission charged on each transaction that occurs? If so, how much, and who receives this? The true creator is not known, he went by a false name "Satoshi".
He actually holds about 250,000 coins if I recall correctly because he was the first miner. Bitcoin is a protocol, a set of rules. It's open source, and anyone who wants to look at it can see that there is not a mechanism to just create more coins by typing in a magic word. There are no commissions, although there are fees that go to the miners who process and verify transactions.
Great podcast, can't wait for the next one! It depends on the mesh. If the mesh was never connected to the internet, it would be a parralel Bitcoin network able to transact with itself but if it was ever connected to the larger network any conflicting transactions would be "lost" as the two ledgers (the big one, and the disconnected one) try to reckon their differences. Only one winner, so that means there is a loser.
You discussed mesh networks in 3rd world countries and how bitcoin could be used in such a scenario. If the [mesh] network is disconnected from the internet, how would transactions on the blockchain be verified? Couldn't the time the mesh network was disconnected make it vulnerable to hacking the [mesh network's] blockchain? More interesting might be disconnected communities running their own fork or version of Bitcoin, that way if they're ever connected it can be an exchange process (trading their coins for "bitcoins" rather than a reckoning (Seeing who has a bigger network and canceling out transactions on the smaller one that conflict)
1) The price for one Bitcoin seems to fluctuate quite a bit. The most successful currencies remain relatively stable over time (e.g. the Dollar). Will Bitcoin ever need to reach a certain level of stability to be a successful unit of trade? and if so, what do you think needs to happen before then? 1 - Yes! Once everyone who has purchased Bitcoin has purchased them, the price will stabilize. In practice this will start happening long before absolute stability, and as soon as people start thinking about prices in terms of BTC instead of their local currency it almost doesn't matter.
2) If Bitcoin ever becomes a widely accepted form of payment (seems a lot of businesses already accept it), how do you think the US government will proceed/react/regulate/etc. considering that technically only the feds can issue currency? 2 - "The Feds" are not the only ones who can issue currency - They have legal tender laws which mean people MUST accept their money, but nothing prevents you from circulating a voluntary currency like Bitcoin.
Do you foresee companies like paypal incorporating bitcoin into their businesses in the future as a more credible exchange than these ones that are currently running? No. Paypal again is the proverbial horse-drawn-buggy manufacturer- Sure they might go to the worlds faire and while observing the new fangled automobiles say to themselves 'we might integrate this into our existing machines!' when the fact is that it obsoletes those existing machines.
Paypal makes their money by standing in the middle of transactions collecting fees, Bitcoin serves its function by connecting people who want to do commerce directly to one-another, and what fees are paid are a tiny fraction of what Paypal does. If paypal accepted Bitcoin, it would not be Bitcoin any more because they would have mechanisms to freeze accounts at the very least to mitigate risk. That is not possible with Bitcoin by itself.
Thanks for the well thought out response, I genuinely appreciated that you took the time for this! I do have a follow up question, how does one get bit coin in an easy way? Lets say I have 300$ that I want in bit coin.. whats the best way to approach this? Probably a company like bitinstant.com, bitstamp.com, or btcquick.com - For larger amounts they don't make too much sense but at that level its your best bet.
Not to be rude, but how do you expect for a currency without a standard like gold silver etc. to not crash down in a blaze of glory? What standard is your currency backed by?
Hi There. I was at the San Jose convention hall last weekend attending Big Wow Comicfest and that's where I saw Bitcoin2013! Mostly Bitcoin 2013 was an opportunity for people building the future of Bitcoin to meet each other and network. There were speakers talking about a wide variety of issues, and vendors of Bitcoin services who were showing their latest innovations and systems.
What information was presented at this event that couldn't be done justice disseminated over the internet? The information will eventually be online, but the probably 200 people I got to meet in real life will not (in real life)
What resources do you think I should review as a total newbie to bitcoin? Or if possible, what's the one sentence pitch to get a newb involved? For people brand new, www.weusecoins.com is a good place to start For people who want to learn how it works, www.letstalkbitcoin.com/learn will direct you to the Bitcoin Education Project, which is a series of free and very high quality lectures that will tell you everything you ever wanted to know and more about Bitcoin, How it works, and all the little sub-topics that you'll eventually want to learn about.
The pitch is "It's like cash that lives on the internet, and is as easy to spend on the internet as buying a candybar in a store with a dollar"
Would any of you hazard a guess at the bitcoin exchange rate at the end of 2013? Sure, i'll make a wild guess.
$1000.
If and when a large user comes onboard, I think thats the next price at which we'll bounce around for a while, just like 100 became the sticky point after the last major bout of adoption.
How do bitcoins relate to the law? For example, what would be the crime if somone hacked your account and stole your bitcoins? It's not exactly theft of money, or is it? Bitcoins are your property, it's illegal for someone to steal your property whether it is money or not. Right now there is little that can be done about theft, but eventually I expect a class of "Blockchain Forensic Investigators" to emerge who will track down your stolen coins for a % based fee.
On your last show you mentioned the diversity of the Bitcoiners who attended BitCoin2013 - which nation was most represented in your opinion? Were there any Chinese nationals present (we've heard that they've suddenly gotten the bitcoin bug in the last month)? Did the other nations talk about regulatory problems or is that just a US concern? I met the gentleman from BTC-China, but other than that I actually didn't see any obvious chinese nationals. We saw lots of eastern europeans and south americans.
Other nations are not talking about the regulatory issue as far as I can tell, it seems like everyone is waiting to see what the US does, which is not abnormal in a very new situation like this.
Isn't having an inherently deflationary currency a terrible idea? How is bitcoin different from geeky goldbuggery? Because you can't divide a gold coin into .0001 without incurring cost and expense. That's not the case with Bitcoin, so the deflationary aspect of it is largely moot.
There is a tendency to listen to modern "economics" which makes this arguement, saying that the money supply must expand because otherwise it drives down profitability in a race to the bottom.
I think in practice we'll find that people don't work against their own best interest, and while during the initial adoptions stages of Bitcoin there will be significant discounts offered to those who pay with Bitcoin vs. legacy currency, once the market becomes saturated and the price levels out those discounts will be scaled way back.
Right now it makes sense to heavily discount, because the expectation is that the value of the Bitcoins will go up during this period of adoption, that won't always be true and the discount is a reflection of anticipated future returns.
Was it bad when people saved money in banks that paid 10% interest? No, that's called capital formation. There is a thought that given a deflationary currency nobody will spend any money, that's nonsense. Just because your currency gains value over time doesn't mean that you no longer have costs that must be paid for. What Deflationary currencies do is say "Ok, you could spend it on that, but is it worth it relative to what you'll gain by not?"
That's a good thing. Our system right now works on the opposite theory - Spend money NOW because if you're dumb enough to keep it in the bank it will actually lose value over time between the couple points of "official" inflation and less than 1% artifical interest rates. The situation is like this now because the fed is trying to make people spend as much money as possible with the hope that the flows will "restart the economic engine"
Too bad this isn't how things work, not that it'll stop us from trying it over and over again.
In the 2008 financial crash, govts bailed out the banks because there was no other way to maintain the whole financial ecosystems of payrolls, invoices and trade, all of which go through the banking system. Honestly? No. Bitcoin would be great in this role, but governments around the world rely on their ability to expand the money supply (print money, or sell debt) in order to fund their deficits. They also manipulate interest rates to be low so that debt is very inexpensive.
Can you envisage another financial crash in the future where govt says, "We don't need to do a bailout, as we've got this alternative payment system" and then instructs businesses and employees to just get themselves a bitcoin address and work through the Bitcoin system? Bitcoin doesn't have a central control mechanism, so there is no group or person who can say "OK - the interest rate is 1%" - If that's really what the interest rate wants to be based on market forces, it'll be that - But if not, there isn't much anyone can do to stop it.
What type of notes and agenda does the team coordinate on before a show? We use Basecamp, and it really depends. Right now we have a show prep thread that has 30+ posts in it for episode 11, we'll probably use 5 of those.
The agenda is really basic - As we get near recording time topics are selected (generally by me, but I like to get the other hosts to do it since they provide most of the commentary in Host segments) and I form a schedule, then we run through the recording session hitting each topic.
Over the last weeks we've brought two researchers onto the team, so that has helped a TON.
I first learned about Bitcoins on an episode of The Good Wife. The one with Jason Biggs as the creator of BitCoin. Have you watched that episode and how accurate does that episode portray what's happening with Bitcoin in terms of legal stuff? Not having seen it but knowing TV, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "not very well" Satoshi has not been identified, was a throw-away identity that was cryptographically secured, so probably never will.
Are there any conferences in Chicago anytime soon? I think a Q&A in public would be helpful for your show as well as bitcoin. I'll be speaking at an event in NYC on July 30, there will be one or two meetups while I'm there. There is also an event in October in Atlanta. I remember talking with a guy at Bitcoin2013 wearing a shirt that said "BitcoinChicago" so I'd suggest looking for a user-group.
We're planning on doing Q&As often, but none of us are really near Chicago so it's tough. Happy to do virtual Q&As over skype, live or recorded.
Oh dear. You're not all perfectly grammatical orators on the first try? I'm crushed! I really value my own time, and I know other people out there do too. I try to make the show as information dense as possible, thats the criteria we've been operating under from really day one.
We're actually talking about cutting the show in half and releasing it more often (still recording the same amount) because people can get tired of listening to such dense content for an hour or more.
US Treasury recently issued a directive stating they would be monitoring any entity attempting to exchange virtual currency for USD (or any other currency, goods, or services), indicating that federal authorities take a dim view of what amounts to private coinage. Do you anticipate a Supreme Court case here defining what is and is not private coinage? 2.And given bitcoin's noted extra-legal uses, do you have any indication it is being decrypted by NSA? 3.Taking it a step further, do you think it could be a national security-sponsored international sieve for money laundering? It may eventually go to Supreme Court.
I think the market has done fine for bitcoin so far. I think the market will continue to take care of bitcoin. The idea of giving in willingly to regulation makes me cringe. There are two camps. Some people think that regulation is inevitable, and since it's going to happen anyways it's better to participate in the process and try to make it less bad. The other side thinks that by participating, you accept their authority to regulate it when really they have no right to regulate money and have proven to do a very bad job at it now for quite a number of years.
Thanks so much for doing this, I love the Bitcoin system, but hate the volatility. How do you recommend dealing with that? I've heard to convert it quickly to the currency of choice after any exchange has been made to avoid any more changes to the price. The easy solution is just buy and hold - If you need to buy something, do it when you need to and not before. Do not pre-order anything.
What is your prediction of the price for 1 btc in USD, exactly one year from now? Just for fun, since I know it is impossible to even guess the day to day price swings. As a wild guess number I'd say $1000 or less than a dollar. Very little middleground because if it's regulated out of existence it will still exist, but be hard to find and cheap - If adoption continues to path the price should accelerate with wild spikes up and down.
My partner is buying into bitcoin as well as litecoin. Any advice for him? (I personally don't understand it) Don't panic, invest for the long term, and don't buy any more than you can afford to lose 100% of because there are still things that could dramatically reduce the price of bitcoin (mostly regulatory stuff, I answered this elsewhere in the thread)
Hello, I just wrote a long post about the functions of using BTC to facilitate a 'free bank' using the principals of free money, similar to the WIR bank. Link to en.wikipedia.org Do you think that something like this would be possible using Bitcoin? Probably. Not really my area of expertise.
Why did bits take a dive at the same time gold took a tank? I don't pay attention to price, sorry.
We take full credit for any rise and blame others for any decline. Feel free to tip us from your gains! Lol.
Just wanted to say I love your show. I encourage you to please continue making high-quality podcast episodes. Thank you. I'm really excited to be able to be a journalist in such an exciting field in a time when journalism is under attack. Not sure if you've been following the so-called "AP scandal" but now is a weird time to be trying to report the truth in this world, and we couldn't have picked a more controversial topic to the global macro picture.
Bitcoins are the stupidest investment anyone could ever make. Pass. Link to static.quickmeme.com
Unfortunately, quickmeme doesn't let you copy image urls directly. Link to i.qkme.me
Yes, but they started being worth a set value. bitcoin was never backed by anything so its value was kind of made up. how do you expect to make a non goverment currency anybody with a computer can print to retain value? Because the pie is only so large, the more people who have computers devoted to the work just each get a smaller and smaller piece.
The rate of issuance for Bitcoin is currently 25 bitcoins every 10 minutes. Only one person or pool gets the whole 25 bitcoins, it's a race to find them. If there are 10 people looking, chances are pretty good you'll find some. If there are 100,000,000 people looking, chances are much less good that you'll find them first, but if there are that many people looking those 25 coins are probably worth a whole lot more.
The system is self balancing in this way, unlike the government currency system where they create 65 billion USD worth of new value every month to buy mortgage backed securities for face value to try and prop up the market. With more than a trillion USD being added in this way each year, how can a government currency retain its value?
Because the governments "pie" does infact have limits to making it, and only dropped gold standard after over 150 years of the doller having a defined worth, unlike bitcoin, where a random hacker can just print endless money. I'd direct you to security researcher Dan Kaminsky. Link to www.businessinsider.com
You'll find it's a little harder than you're describing. Like, impossible.
Last updated: 2013-05-29 11:06 UTC
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I bought an Old Bitcoin Mining Rig - YouTube

This video is a step by step guide on how to build your first Mining Rig. This video also gives you an understanding of the best GPUs for mining in 2020 and ... This was a test rig to see how well I could mine in a small office space. I wanted to see if I could mine using USB tether. Mining doesn't require fast internet just need to be constant and reliable. Install Raid for Free IOS: https://clik.cc/lZAiM ANDROID: https://clik.cc/I3nBm Start with💰50K silver and join the Special Launch Tournament for a chance... Parts Used In This Video: The GPUs: https://geni.us/a1ij2Vx Corsair 450w ATX PSU: https://geni.us/TodEZD The Best Mining Motherboard: https://geni.us/tAHmm I... ubit pci risers https://amzn.to/2mG73Df Easy way to get started mining crypto download Cudominer https://cudominer.com/?a=TUiJ6lLcg nicehash https://www.nice...

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