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How to purchase and exchange your litecoin! (longer read)
This post will show you the best ways to buy litecoins using many different payment methods and exchanges for each method. Before you start, make sure you have a good litecoin wallet to store your LTC. NEVER store your litecoins on a crypto exchange.
Start trading fast; high limits
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Easy way for newcomers to get bitcoins
“Instant Buy” option available with debit card
Works in almost all countries
Highest limits for buying bitcoins with a credit card
Reliable and trusted broker
Buy Litecoin with Credit Card or Debit Card
Let’s dive into some of the exchanges supporting Litecoin credit card purchases. These exchanges are our favorite ways to buy.
Coinbase is the easiest way to buy litecoins with a credit card. Coinbase is available in the United States, Canada, Europe, UK, Singapore, and Australia. The fees will come out to 3.99% per purchase. Here is a good video that can help walk you through the process of buying on Coinbase, although it’s fairly easy.
Coinmama recently added the ability to buy litecoin directly on the platform. Users from nearly any country in the world can use Coinmama to buy litecoins. Coinmama has some of the highest limits among credit card exchanges.
BitPanda is based in Austria and is a crypto brokerage service. You can buy using a credit card from most European countries.
CEX.io is based in the UK and is one of the oldest crypto exchanges online. CEX.io supports litecoin and its users from nearly anywhere in the world can buy litecoin with credit card on the platform.
Buy Litecoin with Bank Account or Bank Transfer
Coinbase is the easiest way to buy litecoins with a bank account or transfer. Coinbase, like is is for credit cards, is available in the United States, Canada, Europe, UK, Singapore, and Australia. Coinbase is one of primary exchanges used to buy Litecoins. Americans can use ACH transfer (5–7 days wait), and Europeans can use SEPA transfer (1–3 days wait). The fees will come out to 1.49% per purchase.
BitPanda is based in Austria and is a crypto brokerage service. You can buy using SEPA transfer from most European countries. You can also use SOFORT, NETELLER, or GiroPay.
CEX.io also supports litecoin buys via bank account. This is via wire transfer for US citizens, SEPA for Europe, and SWIFT for the rest of the globe.
Binance is now one of the largest if not the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the world. It supports bank and card purchases of Litecoin as well as Litecoin trading pairs with Bitcoin and Etehreum.
Get a Litecoin Wallet
Before we move onto other options: Never store your litecoins on an exchange! Always withdrawal your litecoin to an offline cryptocurrency wallet like the Ledger Nano S or any other wallet that you control. The Ledger Nano S and TREZOR are the best options for secure storage.
Other Methods to Buy Litecoin
If you don’t have a card or want to avoid the high fees, you can use the following methods to buy Litecoin as well. Find out which one works best for you.
Buy Litecoin with PayPal
Unfortunately, there is no easy way to buy Litecoin with PayPal. Other sites will tell you that cex allows for this, but that is no longer the case. You can, however, now use eToro to buy Litecoin, unless you live in the United States. If you live in the US, the only way to buy Litecoin with Paypal is to buy Bitcoin using paypal, and then use the Bitcoins to buy Litecoin. You can easily buy Bitcoin using Paypal on Local Bitcoins. Once you have Bitcoin, you can use an exchange like Coinbase Pro to swap the Bitcoin for Litecoin.
Buy Litecoin with Cash
There is no good way to buy litecoins with cash. LocalBitcoins is the most popular way to buy bitcoins with cash, and it does not have Litecoin support. Other popular cash to Bitcoin exchanges like BitQuick and Wall of Coins also do not support LTC. So you will have to first buy bitcoins with cash then exchange them for LTC using the method described below. The same goes for Bitcoin ATMs. Most do not support Litecoin. So if you want to buy litecoins at a Bitcoin ATM you first have to buy bitcoins and then trade the BTC for litecoins.
Buy Litecoin with Bitcoin
If you already have Bitcoins then it is VERY simple to convert some of your BTC to litecoins. You just need to find an exchange with the LTC/BTC pair, which is most exchanges since LTC/BTC is a very popular pair to trade.
Buy Litecoin with Skrill
BitPanda, mentioned above, also accepts Skrill payments for LTC. The fees will vary and are simply included in your buy price.
Cryptmixer is probably the fastest way to convert BTC to Litecoin. You just enter the amount of LTC you want to buy, and give them a LTC address. Then they will tell you how much BTC to send to their address. Once your BTC is sent, you will have LTC delivered to your wallet very shortly after.
Buy Litecoin with Ethereum
Ethereum has experienced a massive price rise. Nearly a year ago it was $10, and now at over $500, many want to move some of their ETH gains into other coins like Litecoin. Litecoin has very good liquidity, and is very popular among traders especially in China. So this guide is going to show you how to buy litecoins with Ethereum. We will show some of the best exchanges you can use, and the pros and cons of using different types of exchanges over the other.
Cryptmixer is one of the most unique exchanges, and also one of the fastest ways to convert your ETH to LTC. With Cryptmixer you do not even need to store your money with the exchange, meaning you are at very little risk of getting your funds stolen. With Cryptmixer you simply specify the amount of LTC you want to buy, and specific the address to where your litecoins should be sent and within 30 minutes you will have LTC delivered to your wallet.
Poloniex is the world’s largest altcoin exchange. However, there is a huge downside to using Poloniex to convert your ETH to LTC: Poloniex does not have a LTC/ETH market, meaning you have to first trade your ETH to BTC, and then trade your BTC for LTC. While this method works, you will have to make multiple trades and also pay fees twice.
Shapeshift is basically the same as Cryptmixer, and was actually the first company to come up with the concept of an exchange that does not hold your own funds.
Frequently Asked Questions About Buying Litecoin
Many of you may still have lots of questions about how to buy Litecoin. Odds are we have answered almost any question you could think of below. We will aim to answer many of the most common questions relating to buying Litecoin.
Why are there limited options to buying Litecoin using other altcoins?
The issue in all crypto markets is liquidity. As the space gets bigger, the liquidity also gets better. But as of now, the only VERY liquid cryptocurrency is Bitcoin. So exchanging two altcoins between each other is often harder than if BTC was involved on one side of the trade.
How much is a Litecoin worth?
Like all currencies, the value of Litecoin changes every second. The value of Litecoin also depends on the country you are in and the exchange you are trading on. You can find the most up to date price on Coinbase.
How do I buy Ripple (XRP) with Litecoin?
The best way to buy Ripple using Litecoin is to either use a non KYC exchange like Cryptmixer or start an account on Binance or Coinbase Pro and sell your Litecoin for Ripple. Look for LTC/XRP trading pairs, and make your trade.
How long does Litecoin take to confirm?
Litecoin blocks are added ever 2 and a half minutes. That means you should get one confirmation every two and a half minutes. This can vary if it takes miners longer to discover a block, but the difficulty of the finding a block should change proportionate to the hashing power on the network so that a block gets added approximately every 2.5 minutes. If you are trying to send money to a merchant, they may require more than one confirmation before they send you products. If you are depositing on an exchange, they may also require three or more confirmations before they credit your account.
How many Litoshis make one Litecoin?
one hundred million (100,000,000) Litoshis make one (1) Litecoin.
Where do I store Litecoin?
The best place to store litecoin is on a hardware wallet. You can find the best one for you on our page dedicated to hardware wallets.
When is the Litecoin halving?
The expected date of the next Litecoin block reward halving is August 7th, 2023.
Why can litecoin take so long to buy?
Litecoin can take long to buy because the legacy banking system is very slow. If you are buying with another cryptocurrency, you will see how fast it is to buy! Bank transfer in the USA, for example, take about 5 days to complete. So any purchase of Litecoin made with a US bank transfer will take a minimum of 5 days.
How do I buy Litecoin with Paypal?
Unfortunately, there is no easy way to buy Litcoin with PayPal. Other sites will tell you that cex allows for this, but that is no longer the case. You can, however, now use eToro to buy Litcoineum, unless you live in the United States. If you live in the US, the only way to buy Litcoin with Paypal is to buy Bitcoin using paypal, and then use the Bitcoins to buy Litcoin. You can easily buy Bitcoin using Paypal on Local Bitcoins. Once you have Bitcoin, you can use an exchange like Cryptmixer to swap the Bitcoin for Litcoin.
Can you buy partial litecoins?
Yes, litecoin, like Bitcoin, is divisible to many decimal places so you can buy 0.1 LTC, 0.001 LTC, etc.
Can you sell litecoin?
Yes, you can sell LTC on most of the exchanges mentioned above. The fees, speed, and privacy is the same in most cases.
Can anyone buy litecoins?
Anyone is free to buy litecoins, as long as you find an exchange that supports your country. Most cryptocurrency wallets do not require ID to sign up so you can always make a wallet and get paid in litecoin, too.
Which payment method is best to use?
For speed, credit card will likely be fastest. For larger amounts, bank transfer is best. For privacy, it’s best to buy bitcoins with cash and then trade for litecoins using Cryptmixer or Shapeshift.
Is it better to mine or buy litecoins?
If you have cheap electricity, it might be worth it to mine litecoins. If you have solar power or just want to mine for fun then it could be worth it. Otherwise, it’s probably better just to buy. Mining is constantly changing and small changes in Litecoin price or electricity can greatly affect your profitability.
What should I do with my litecoins once I buy?
You should immediately move your litecoins into a secure wallet. You should never leave your litecoins on an exchange. There have been countless hacks in cryptocurrency since Bitcoin was created in 2009. Hundreds of thousands of people have lost money. So buy your litecoins, and then instantly send them into a wallet you control so you are not at risk of losing money to a hack or scam.
This review is not sponsored! Neither it is an ad. How to choose a mining pool? How to avoid stale shares? The pros and cons of different services.
What is a cryptocurrency mining pool?
A “mining pool" is a server that distributes the task of calculating the block signature between all connected participants. The contribution of each of them is evaluated using the so-called “shares”, which are potential candidates for receiving a signature. As soon as one of the “shares” hits the target, the pool announces the readiness of the block and distributes the reward. However, if you participate in the pool, then you will have to share the profit with all the participants in the pool, but for the majority, this usually is the most profitable option.
Which pool is better for mining?
The best mining pools should meet the following criteria:
Minimum commission for using their services (mining and funds withdrawal);
24/7 availability to monitor all the steps of mining;
Honesty, reliability and a long time of existence (among the owners of pools some scammers steal part of the power of miners and dissolve into oblivion with the funds earned by miners);
The high computing power of the pool makes it more likely that blocks will be found regularly (with low pool power, all work may be wasted due to the low probability of finding blocks);
A small ping) from the user's mining equipment to the pool servers to ensure timely receipt of tasks from the pool and minimize the number of stale shares;
If the mining power is small, it is worth paying attention to the minimum payout threshold so that you do not have to wait for it for a long time.
Key selection criteria
To select a good pool for each specific cryptocurrency, you need to carefully study all the information available about it on its website and on the forums. To reduce the number of stale shares, it is better to mine on the pool closest to the miner. You can choose the fastest mining pool by studying the information about the processing speed of the share in the mining program or by pinging the time it takes for the signal to pass from the miner's computer to the servers of the pool.
We are back! For the last 2 years there was not much to shill in mining mining was on the life support. And the profits constantly got decreasing. Start of 2020 Bitcoin and Altcoins are showing great performance in price action. This price action has also increased mining profits in some coins for more then 100% since december 2019. It might be to early to say that “we are back” , as crypto can be so unpredictable. But there is a lot of signs that we have now oversold a lot and value of crypto market is increasing steadily. We might see this pattern continue for good bit of times as BTC halving is coming up in 3 month. Let’s get in straight in. I will choose 3 hardware devices which in my opinion would be the best choice and we will see how profitable they are. If you are new to mining and you want to know which devices to choose, choose from top market cap coins latest equipment. This will be your safest bet, as the mining profits are much more stable on bigger cap coins then on smaller cap coins. If you are small miner and don’t have large electric bills, you can choose smaller cap coins. They might go up in price lot faster then bigger cap coins in bull market, but be aware they they might dump lot faster. It is high risk high reward type of mining. If you are really serious about mining, you need to look at cheapest power source possible which would be in 0.05c a kw/h range. It is not 2017 and mining from home wont be profitable at 0.30c a kw/h. Industrial power is possible to achieve 0.05 in many places in the world. If it is not possible in your country , look for the country where it is possible. So all profit calculations done for 0.05c a kw/h Top mining profitability websites :
https://www.asicminervalue.com/ It is great website to see newest ASIC miners and their profitability. Usually the new upcoming mining machines gets listed here. So come and checkout this page every few days/weeks this page if you are serious about mining.
https://whattomine.com/ Is the best known for GPU/CPU mining profitability. You can choose what ever hardware to use and it will give you the best and most profitable coins to mine. It is very simple to use it. It does have Also asic miner profitability check, but for asics i do prefer asicminervalue,com
Bitcoin – Most suitable Antminer S17+ . It is one of the efficient Bitcoin miner currently publicly available, alternatives would be M20s miner and Avalon miner 1166. Antminer S17 efficiency is 73TH/s @ 3000watts . Current profitability after you have paid your electric bill is 7.82 usd in 24hours , with ROI achievable in 6-7month. It does seems great, but crypto doesn’t stand still. And has plenty of risks.
Ethereum – Best miner to use is RX5700 graphic cards mining rig. I know there is an ASIC miner available A10, but most of you who are in mining will agree with me, that it is complete junk. It is only slightly more efficient then RX5700 gpu rig in terms of price per hash and watt per hash . But it is 10x more riskier investment in mining rig then buying GPU mining rig. So the efficiency of 12xgpu RX5700 mining rig is 640 mh/s @ 1700watts. Current profitability after you have paid your electric bill is 7.62 usd in 24hours , with ROI achievable in about 20-22 month. Ethereum is one of the underdogs which could perform quite well in 2020 and might reduce your ROI much more faster.
DASH – Lately has been released most efficient DASH miner STU-U6. Asic miners are very risky investment, but sometimes they might be very profitable. The beauty of this miner is that it is quite new model and it is mining profitably DASH , even that DASH is still over 90%down from its all time highs. This miner performance is 420GH/s u/2100 watts. Current profitability after you have paid your electric bill is 8.11 usd in 24hours , with ROI achievable in about 5-6 month.
04-03 12:33 - 'Paul Le Roux' (self.Bitcoin) by /u/financeoptimum removed from /r/Bitcoin within 191-201min
''' Paul Le Roux is a fascinating character, whose story entails drugs, gold, arms dealing, North Koreans, Iranians, elite-level encryption, Somali pirates, women...and more women. Let's get into it... Part 1/5 - The Early Years Paul Le Roux was born on Christmas Eve, 1972, in Bulawayo, the second-largest city in what was then called—by the white minority that governed it, at least— Rhodesia. In 1980, Robert Mugabe became prime minister of what would now be called Zimbabwe, ending minority white rule in the country. Four years later, when Le Roux was 12, the family relocated to South Africa. Not long after the move, in exchange for washing his father’s car, Le Roux was given his first computer. After that, a relation of Le Roux states that he became "completely anti-social.” When Le Roux was 15 or 16, in the late 1980s, the local police raided the family home and arrested Paul for selling pornography. After that, Le Roux turned even more inward. Although he was an excellent student, he despised the idea of learning Afrikaans, which was compulsory in South African schools, describing it as "a dead language" that he "didn't want to learn." At 16, he dropped out of high school and decided to follow his interest in computers, taking a local programming course. Family lore has it that after he spent one class explaining some technical fact to the teacher, he got a letter saying he no longer needed to attend. He then completed a year’s worth of material in eight weeks! Accounts of Le Roux do indicate that he was exceptionally gifted, and people who worked with him described him as a genius. After returning from a family holiday to Disneyland in the US, 17-year-old Le Roux decided to leave South Africa, and departed for the UK eight months later to work as a programmer. He then moved from the UK to the US, where he lived in Virginia Beach. After six months in the US, he followed his then-girlfriend Michelle to Australia in 1995. The couple married and Le Roux acquired Australian citizenship. Le Roux frequented message boards and enjoyed trolling Australians. A typical post read: "All of Australia could disappear into the Pacific and the only difference it would make to the World is the Americans would have one less pussy country to protect." His posts caused outrage on the board - someone even changed their handle to fuck @ you.paul Le Roux would later declare that his correspondents had fallen for his ploy: "Australians are east to provoke and your postings (including 2 death threats, numerous flames, and one guy who swears he has my address & phone number) have provided me with hours of amusement." Of course, Le Roux did more than just troll Australian message boards in this period... Le Roux had started building E4M - Encryption for the Masses - in 1997, releasing it at the end of 1998. Part 2/5 - The Turning Point E4M allowed users to encrypt entire hard drives, and to conceal the existence of encrypted files (such that prying eyes wouldn't even know they were there). According to Le Roux, the software was written from scratch, with thousands of hours going into its development and testing. As well as this, in the [Politics section of the E4M website]1 , Le Roux published a sort of Manifesto, describing how "governments are increasingly relying on electronic data gathering" and how "Strong Encryption is the mechanism with which to combat these intrusions, preserve your rights, and guarantee your freedoms into the information age and beyond." In the spirit of the open-source software movement in the late 90s, Le Roux released E4M for free and made the code available for other people to improve. Therefore, with no income from his two years of labor, he was struggling financially. His marriage fell apart violently and the couple got divorced in 1999. Le Roux first relocated to Hong Kong, then to Rotterdam in the Netherlands. He married a Dutch citizen named Lilian, and they had a child shortly after. In 2000, in order to monetize E4M, Le Roux launched [SW Professionals]2 in 2000. Based in South Africa, the company offered offshore programming, including E4M customization. One of Le Roux's clients was an Italian telecoms engineer called Wilfried Hafner, who had corresponded with Le Roux for several years about E4M. Hafner had founded a company to create a commercial encryption product that would combine some of the elements of E4M with another piece of software, Scramdisk. The new company would be called SecurStar, and its product would be called DriveCrypt. Hafner hired Le Roux to build DriveCrypt's underlying engine. At the time, Le Roux was desperate for money - he drove a beat up car and worked out of a Rotterdam apartment small enough that, on the phone, Hafner could often hear a baby crying in the background. Hafner on the other hand was living in the South of France, and Le Roux openly coveted the kind of success that he imagined led to such a home. He told Hafner: "I am ambitious, I want to have all this." However, in the middle of the development work for DriveCrypt, Hafner discovered that Le Roux was still working on E4M and had incorporated some of his work for SecurStar into his personal project. As a result, Hafner terminated Le Roux's contract. By October 2002, SW Professionals was now defunct and Le Roux was openly soliciting for work on the alt.security.scramdisk forum. It was around this time that Le Roux received some news that "shattered his whole world." In 2002, he travelled to Zimbabwe to retrieve a copy of his birth certificate. On the trip, his aunt and uncle pulled him aside to tell him the truth, and it was then that Le Roux found out he was adopted. Although many family members had known for years, Le Roux’s parents had elected to keep him in the dark about it. It was the "unknown" part that hurt him the most. Shortly after, Le Roux appeared on an another set of message boards - he seemed to be launching some kind of moneymaking scheme that required opening a company based in the U.S. In 2004, a group of anonymous developers did exactly what Hafner had feared: they released a new and powerful, free file-encryption program, called TrueCrypt, built on the code for E4M. TrueCrypt combined security and convenience, giving users the ability to strongly encrypt files or entire disk drives while continuing to work with those files as they would a regular file on their computer. Hafner and his SecurStar colleagues suspected that Le Roux was part of the TrueCrypt collective but couldn't prove it. As we'll explore in Part 5, TrueCrypt is an interesting part of this story... Part 3/5 - Money and Power After Le Roux's departure from the encryption world, at least under his own name, he entered the Internet-pharmacy business. What Le Roux did next was combine two of America's favourite past times, popping pills and online shopping, and the results were sensational. He turned over around $300MM in 4 years. In 2007, Le Roux moved his family to Manila, where he would base his operations. He also had call centres in Israel. This was a brilliant move by Le Roux, as the authorities were not looking at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem as hot-spots for a large-scale organised crime operation... Le Roux was moving serious volume during this time - his operation was once one of FedEx's largest customers. A relative of Le Roux pointed to 2008 or 2009 as the point at which Le Roux snapped. "I think the money got to him. I personally saw $100 million in his office in Makati. Cash, bud. It was fucking ridiculous. It was in wicker baskets lined up on the side of the wall in his office." Le Roux's appetite only grew, and not just in the literal sense (he was known as the "Fat Man" in the Philippines): he wanted to be a different kind of businessman, a lord of the real underworld, not just the virtual one. An Israeli associate of Le Roux tells how "Le Roux wanted to make more money, fast. Le Roux wanted to diversify, to be bigger. The only way to do that was illegal. He was living inside a movie, you could almost say." As well as this, Le Roux was notorious for his sexual exploits - he once wrote to his cousin, "15-20 a week, sometimes 3 per night." A former call centre employee tells how Le Roux approached him with an assignment, which at first he thought was collecting women for Le Roux to open a bar. However, that was not the reason, as Le Roux explained: "I'm going to impregnate them, and build an army of kids." Le Roux asked him to make a spreadsheet to track the women: their names, dress size, age, medical checkups. The operation was given top priority by Le Roux, who even sent his emissary to China to try to find women there. It is rumoured that Le Roux has at least 11 children to 7 different women! Le Roux's businesses expanded into logging, precious metals mining, gold smuggling, land deals, cocaine shipping, and arms dealing. These activities were spread across dozens of shell companies registered all over the world. Of course, he needed to launder the money. Le Roux used paid muscle in Hong Kong to swap cash for gold bars, and then proceeded to stash the gold in warehouses in Hong Kong (this totalled around $50MM). Speaking of paid muscle, Le Roux had plenty: ex-soldiers and mercenaries made sure any problems were dealt with force if necessary. Le Roux was closest to ex-British soldier Dave Smith, who would act as the leader of the mercenaries and allow Le Roux to insulate himself and not have to deal with people. In fact, Le Roux once told Smith "I live vicariously through you." However, things took a turn for the worse, at least from Dave Smith's perspective, as Smith stole $5MM worth of Gold from Le Roux. Le Roux was furious. He then summoned Smith to his place in the country, and asked him to dig a hole as they needed to stash some gold. However, when he arrived, he was greeted by a South African hit-man. After the hit-man had finished shooting Smith, Le Roux then grabbed the gun and fired into Smith's corpse. Le Roux then set about building an arms base in Somalia. To achieve this, Le Roux called upon an ex-soldier from Europe, code-named 'Jack' to work for him on the ground in Somalia. At sea, Jack had to bribe Somali pirates. It was actually this activity in Somalia that landed Le Roux on the radar of the DEA, as he popped up in a UN Report on security in Somalia. The DEA were now on his tail. Of course, his encryption skills came in handy - Le Roux's thick layers of encryption meant that the DEA needed someone on the inside... Part 4/5 - "Well played gentlemen, well played" Le Roux was getting more and more paranoid about people in his organisation stealing from him. Without justification, he suspected that his self proclaimed 'Golden Boy' Jack was stealing from him - so he ordered a hit on Jack. This was a huge mistake on Le Roux's part, as Jack then called a CIA hotline and went on the run. It was 18 months later that a DEA investigating Le Roux found Jack's message to the CIA. The DEA agent then called Jack. Scared for his life, Jack agreed to turn informant. In the meantime, Le Roux then had a change of heart and apologised to Jack for ordering the hit on him. The DEA then asked Le Roux to go back to work for Le Roux - they now had someone on the inside. To tempt Le Roux, the DEA devised a sting operation. They knew that Le Roux wanted novelty and excitement. So they fabricated the scenario that Jack had made contact with a high profile Colombian trafficker, and the Colombians wanted to bypass the Mexicans for their meth supply in the US. Le Roux was hooked. However, the DEA needed to lure Le Roux out of Manila, as his network of corrupt officials would ensure he will never be arrested. Jack needed to get Le Roux to Liberia (where the DEA had a trusted ally in Fombah Sirleaf, Head of Liberia's National Security Agency). Jack achieved this by saying that they needed to meet a cartel representative to finalise the deal. It worked, and Le Roux was arrested. Initially, Le Roux went into passive resistance - he was a big unit (hence the nickname "Fat Man") - and it took around 10 agents to get him on the plane to fly back to the US. Well he settled on the plane, the first thing Le Roux said to the DEA agents was: "Well played gentlemen, well played." He then said: "If you're looking at me, then clearly you're looking at bigger things..." The DEA agents were intrigued: "No Paul, you're the prize - what could possibly be bigger than you?" Le Roux responded: "Nation states gentlemen, nation states." He then started to spew out extremely valuable information on North Korea and Iran. Of course, this wasn't the only leverage Le Roux had... The enforcers who were once on Le Roux's payroll needed to be held accountable for their numerous murders, and the DEA were desperate to get them behind bars. Le Roux was key in their eventual capture. But that's not all: a crucial piece to this story is Part 5... Part 5/5 - TrueCrypt As we discussed previously, Le Roux was rumoured to be a member of the TrueCrypt collective. In November 2012, a man with the online handle Cincinnatus decided to throw a party in Hawaii. The idea arose out of an email exchange with Runa Sandvik, a developer and expert on the online software Tor, which allows its users to mask the physical location of their computers on the Internet. After she gave a Tor tutorial on Reddit, Cincinnatus sent Sandvik an encrypted message. Cincinnatus told Sandvik that he lived in Hawaii. Sandvik mentioned that she would be there on vacation the following month and could give a talk on Tor. Cincinnatus suggested they host a “cryptoparty,” a phenomenon that had arisen around that time among technology- and privacy-conscious activists. The date was set for December 11. Unbeknownst to Sandvik, her fellow party planner was hatching a much more elaborate education scheme. Four days after he contacted Sandvik, Cincinnatus sent an email to the journalist Glenn Greenwald. “The security of people’s communications is very important to me,” he wrote. In a series of emails, he suggested that Greenwald set up an encrypted means by which sources could contact him. Cincinnatus organized the cryptoparty at a hacker space called HiCapacity, located in the back of a furniture store in Honolulu. When Sandvik arrived around 6 p.m., Cincinnatus introduced himself as Ed and told her that he worked at the computer-hardware company Dell. Ed kicked off the evening by welcoming the attendees, then invited Sandvik to give her presentation on Tor. When she was finished, Ed pulled out his laptop, plugged it into the projector, and began his own instructional talk about TrueCrypt. In Ed’s presentation, Sandvik later wrote, he “pointed out that while the only known name associated with TrueCrypt is someone in the Czech Republic, TrueCrypt is one of the best open-source solutions available.” Six months later, in June 2013, Greenwald and filmmaker Laura Poitras published the first of a series of articles that grew out of their contact with Cincinnatus. In time they revealed that his full name was Edward Snowden, that he had worked in various capacities at the National Security Agency, and that he had downloaded and handed over a trove of documents from the NSA in an effort to blow the whistle on what he believed were egregious privacy encroachments by the U.S. government. Among them was a document revealing that TrueCrypt was one of a small number of encryption programs that had withstood the NSA’s efforts to crack it. What Snowden and the rest of the world wouldn’t know for another two years was that Paul Le Roux, the man whose code formed the foundation of True Crypt, was at that very moment in the custody of the U.S. government. Le Roux was in a bind, facing the full force of a U.S. federal prosecution for any number of his extraordinary array of crimes. The only way out was to spill his secrets... [[link]4 ''' Paul Le Roux Go1dfish undelete link unreddit undelete link Author: financeoptimum 1: e4m.net/**l*ht*l 2: e4m*net* 3: www.yout*be.co*/watc**v=z**aMoJ**k* 4: www.youtube.com/watc*?v*z*Za*o***kc**^* Unknown links are censored to prevent spreading illicit content.
Blockchain project Elrond’s gaming app is set to get launched via Samsung Galaxy Store
The app, dubbed “Battle of Elrond,” is expected to go live in Q1 of this year
Beniamin Mincu, founder and CEO of Elrond, told The Block that players of the game can earn ERD tokens
Samsung Electronics' blockchain smartphones, such as Galaxy S10, are set to feature Elrond project’s gaming app - “Battle of Elrond.” Revealing the news exclusively to The Block on Thursday, Europe-based Elrond said that the gaming app is scheduled to get launched in Q1 of this year. “Battle of Elrond is a mobile multiplayer game. Players earn ERD [Elrond’s native token] for defeating their enemies,” Beniamin Mincu, founder and CEO of Elrond, told The Block. One ERD token is currently worth $0.0016. Mincu added that the game will be “exclusively” available via the Samsung Galaxy Store, meaning smartphones with native blockchain capabilities (Galaxy S10 and above) will support the app. Mincu stressed that Battle of Elrond is not a decentralized app (dApp), but is a mobile app with a blockchain component. Elrond and Samsung initially teamed up in November, when the smartphone maker integrated ERD token on its blockchain wallet. The wallet also supports bitcoin (BTC), ether (ETH) and Aergo token, among others. Elrond said blockchain technology helps reduce costs and provide security as well as privacy to users. It explained that native app stores collect fees of up to 30%, while blockchain “allows frictionless direct interaction at low fees.” “Allowing consumers to enjoy cost reduction and privacy without the intricate blockchain-specific hassle will likely catapult adoption,” it added. Scalable blockchain? Elrond has been claiming to focus on performance and usability for its blockchain network. The firm said its blockchain “brings 1,000x improvements over existing blockchains” with “adaptive state” sharding architecture and “secure” proof-of-stake mechanism. Elrond’s mainnet, however, is yet to get fully launched. According to the roadmap posted on its website, the mainnet bootstrapping will happen over three phases through 2020. “The Battle of Elrond blockchain mechanics will be ported to our mainnet as a top priority after we launch. Until then, the ERC20 ERD token will be used as interim,” Mincu told The Block. Elrond is backed by notable investors, including Binance Labs, Electric Capital and NGC Ventures. The firm has raised a total of $5.15 million to date - $1.9 million in private placements and $3.25 million in public funding round via Binance Launchpad, said Mincu. There are currently 30 members working for Elrond, and the firm is “always looking to add more talent” to its roster. Looking ahead, Elrond is focused on two areas. “One, we plan to expand our partnerships by making the Elrond Blockchain available to some of the most important enterprises in Europe” in 2020, said Mincu, adding that the firm also plans to “finally make public a product that we’ve been developing for some time, which makes blockchain tech attractive for the average internet user.” Blockchain gaming Gaming as a blockchain use case is indeed catching up. Last month, Nasdaq-listed hardware manufacturer AMD ventured into blockchain gaming. Several startups, including BetProtocol, Mythical Games and Immutable, have raised millions of dollars in recent months for their gaming ventures. Earlier this year, Immutable sold a collectible card from its "Gods Unchained" game for about $62,000, claiming to be the second most-valuable game card in the world, followed by the MTG's "Black Lotus" card for $87,000. Mincu told The Block that Battle of Elrond does not have non-fungible tokens and that only ERD token is used. "The type of game is different, as Gods Unchained is a 1v1 [one versus one] trading card game, whereas Battle of Elrond is a fast-paced Diablo-like PvP [Player(s) versus player(s)] arena."
Review: The most thrilling 24 hours in Bitcoin history
From 12:00 on March 12th to 12:00 on the 13th, Bitcoin, the most influential currency in the cryptocurrency industry, suffered two major declines, and its price fell from a maximum of 7,672 USD to a minimum of 3,800 USD (data from Huobi, the next Same), the decline was 50.4%, which means that the price of Bitcoin has achieved a fairly accurate "half price" in these 24 hours. Previously, Bitcoin's "halving market" was mostly considered to be an increase in market prices caused by Bitcoin's halving production, although many people have questioned the "halving market" as " The price is halved ", but when bitcoin walks out of the current bad market, it still surprises most investors. First plunge The bad 24 hours started at 12 o'clock on March 12. Due to the rapid spread of the new crown epidemic in Europe and the United States, the global financial markets have been raining for several days. After several adjustments, the price of Bitcoin has hovered up and down within the range of $ 7600-8200 in the previous three days. However, after 12 o'clock on the 12th, Bitcoin The price fell below $ 7,600 for the first time, breaking the psychological expectations of many investors, entering a rapid decline channel, and dropping to about $ 7,200 at around 18 o'clock. At this time, the decline of Bitcoin is still around 7%, which is a common occurrence in the history of Bitcoin. However, after 18 o'clock that day, the market turned sharply, and the price of bitcoin plunged again in a short period of time. It fell to US $ 5,555 within tens of minutes, a drop of 28%, and the amount of contractual positions on each platform exceeded US $ 2 billion. During the decline, most major exchanges such as Huobi, Binance, and OKEx experienced systemic freezes of varying degrees. Many users complained for a long time that the exchange app could not properly display the homepage, market page, and transaction page, and added positions, stops, and withdrawals. Obstacles such as cash withdrawal and cash withdrawal operations have also shown that this situation also highlights that mainstream exchanges still fail to address the ability of their trading systems to respond to extreme conditions. For this decline, the collective sell-off of large Bitcoin holders is considered to be the main reason. For example, Grayscale Investment, the world's largest crypto asset fund management company, was sold and sold 40,000-50,000 Bitcoins. News from the exchange said that Bitcoin sold 400,000. For a long time, bitcoin has been called "digital gold" by the blockchain industry, and has good risk aversion properties. During the tense situation between the United States and Iran in January this year and the global stock market fell, Bitcoin rose from $ 7,200 all the way to more than $ 10,000. Bitcoin's safe-haven attributes have been widely recognized in history, but this time caused by the new crown epidemic Under the risk of the global economic downturn, the decline in the price of bitcoin has become the asset with the largest depreciation among various mainstream financial assets, and its high-risk nature will most likely collapse. Some analysts believe that bitcoin should be further classified as an alternative asset. At a time when liquidity shortage is extremely serious, as a high-risk alternative investment asset with the highest volatility in the world, funds will naturally be drawn from the market by investors. Looking for safer, more liquid assets, prices plummet. "Everyone in the future will realize that Bitcoin is not digital gold, but" an amplifier of risk. " Its value cannot be anchored. Unlike other asset prices, which are affected by costs and prices, Bitcoin has no normal market value range. As of now, it does not have any convincing valuation basis, more like a swaying boat. Without the anchor, its value fluctuates greatly, and the impact of halving the market and supply and demand on it is far less important than psychological factors. "Said Cai Kailong, senior researcher at the Institute of Financial Technology of Renmin University of China. However, some people in the industry hold different opinions. "BTC is still the most powerful currency in the history of mankind. It provides liquidity 24 hours a day. This is something that other markets simply can't imagine, but because liquidity is too good, this time it just happened to happen in other markets. When funds are scarce, the first choice for selling supplementary funds has also led to the decline of gold. Of course, the amount of BTC that is currently much lower than gold is certainly unstoppable in a short period of time. "A Weibo blogger" "fhrp". In addition to the sell-off of large institutions, some mortgage lending platforms have also passively become an important boost for this downturn. In the past six months, the Defi concept has been particularly hot in the blockchain industry, and many cryptocurrency-based cryptocurrency lending platforms were born. As a result, a large number of large Bitcoin users will pledge the Bitcoin in their accounts to third-party lending platforms and use the USDT to borrow cash to purchase cash, which is equivalent to increasing leverage. However, these platforms are not mature in terms of mortgage rate setting and liquidation mechanisms. Users who increase the mortgage rate of assets have a slower transfer speed on the chain. As a result, during this period of rapid decline in the market, a large number of mortgage orders have lower mortgage assets than loans. As a result, the amount of bitcoin out-of-market positions this time was far more than in the previous period of large market volatility, which further exacerbated the selling pressure of the bitcoin spot market. From 19:00 on the 12th to the early morning of the 13th, the price of Bitcoin hovered in the range of 5800-6200 US dollars, and the market began to prepare for the next stage of the trend. Second plunge On the evening of the 12th, the stock markets of mainstream countries in Europe and the United States successively opened and collectively fell, and the stock markets of at least 11 countries, such as the United States, Canada, and the Philippines, melted down. At the close of the morning on the 13th, both the Dow Jones Industrial Average and the S & P 500 Index had the largest single-day percentage decline since the 1987 stock disaster. The Dow closed down about 2352 points, the largest drop in history. The bad performance of the stock market quickly passed to the currency market. Beginning at 7 o'clock on the 13th, the price of bitcoin plunged from the position of $ 5,800 once again, dropping all the way, and successively fell below $ 5,000 and $ 4,000. For the rapid decline of the market, many people in the industry believe that the main factor is not only the panic selling of the market, but also the mutual stepping on of contract investors. Weibo blogger "AlbertTheKing" pointed out that most of the long positions in Bitcoin leverage are in the BitMEX perpetual contract market. The long positions caused by the decline in bitcoin prices caused a series of short positions, which in turn caused arbitrage spreads and spot arbitrage. The party rushed in to open multiple orders and sell spot arbitrage at the same time, thinking it was okay. As a result, I did not expect Bitcoin to fall more and more fiercely, and his own arbitrage and long positions also burst. So at first, the leveraged bulls stepped down on each other, and later became the arbitrage party. . "Fhrp" also pointed out that because BitMEX only has BTC margin, ETH's permanent liquidation also needs to be undertaken by btc. The profit portion of the hedge order cannot be included in the margin, and BTC is not sufficient because of the card being in serious shortage. The exploding warehouse order was opaque, so that no one dared to pick up the corpse later, fearing that it would become a corpse. Of course, the key is the lack of a fusing system, so that the market can slowly wait for liquidity to keep up. Under the interweaving of many risks, the price of bitcoin is about 10:15. It has fallen below 3,800 US dollars in many exchanges such as Huobi and OKEx, which is 38% lower than the price of 0 on the day and 50.4% lower than 24 hours ago. This is the highest record in the 24-hour drop since the birth of Bitcoin. Such a precise decline cannot be doubted as the bad taste of the bookmaker behind the exchange, if the bookmaker does exist. Of course, it is not excluded that this situation is due to the tacit understanding among the main market participants, or a purely natural phenomenon. But judging from objective facts, there is indeed some evidence that the situation is unnatural. After bitcoin hit a low of $ 3,800, its price quickly rose in the next 20 minutes, rising by 59% to $ 5,250, but then fell rapidly. At the turning point of $ 3,800, which is 10:16, the BitMEX trading system, the largest bitcoin exchange in the cryptocurrency industry, suddenly stopped until 10:40. It can be seen that the time point when the Bitcoin price stopped falling rapidly and stopped rising rapidly was close to the time point when BitMEX went down and returned to normal. This shows that BitMEX has a huge influence on the secondary market, and it also makes a lot of One suspects BitMEX is manipulating the market. Sam Bankman-Fried, chief executive of Derivatives Exchange FTX, tweeted that he suspects BitMEX may have intentionally closed transactions to prevent further crashes and to avoid using exchange insurance funds. Mining company BitPico also tweeted yesterday, "According to our analysis, BitMEX Research has closed its long position of $ 993 million with its own robots and capital. Today the manipulation of the bitcoin market is caused by an entity and the investigation is ongoing. " In response to this incident, BitMEX responded that there was a hardware problem with the cloud service provider, and in a subsequent announcement, it was pointed out that the DDoS attack was the real cause of the short-term downtime. Why the downtime of the BitMEX trading system is difficult to verify, but from its objective impact, its short-term downtime plays a vital role in curbing the further decline in the price of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, which has eased investment to a certain extent. The panic sentiment created by this has created space for the rebound and correction of cryptocurrency prices such as Bitcoin. Sam Bankman-Fried even speculated that if BitMEX did not go offline because of a "hardware problem" this morning (February 13), the price of Bitcoin could fall to zero. If compared with the traditional financial market, the effect of this BitMEX outage event is quite similar to the "fuse" mechanism of the stock market. Trading is suspended for dozens of minutes at the moment when investor sentiment is most panic, so this outage event Also aroused the emotions of many people in the industry. "BitMEX has helped the currency circle" melt out, "otherwise the chainless stepping will not know where to fall. After the fuse, everyone calmed down and the market returned to normal. Weibo blogger "Blockchain William" posted a blog saying, "The market is not afraid of falling, and it is not afraid of stepping on it. That is why. This is why the global stock market has melted down because investors panic. It is a bottomless pit. Once out of control, there is no bottom Now. " Of course, the factors that cause the market situation to reverse are not limited to this. According to the feedback from multiple users on social platforms, BitMEX and Binance's major exchanges forced the short positions of multiple accounts to close positions at 10 o'clock on March 13th, that is, the automatic lightening mechanism was in effect. According to the BitMEX platform mechanism, when investor contracts are forced to close out, their remaining positions will be taken over by BitMEX's strong closing system. However, if a strong liquidation position cannot be closed in the market, and when the marked price reaches the bankruptcy price, the automatic lightening system will lighten the investor holding the position in the opposite direction, and the order of lightening is determined according to the leverage and profit ratio . Specifically, due to the sharp fluctuations in the price of bitcoin, a large number of long single-series bursts and the scarcity of market liquidity. In order to control the risk, the platform will automatically place some short orders with high profit ratios and high leverage on the market, increasing market flow. It also avoids the risk to the platform caused by the inability of the short-selling order to be executed in a timely manner. According to BitMEX's announcement, about 200 positions were automatically closed by the system. And Twitter blogger Edward Morra said, "On BitMEX alone, short positions worth about $ 500 million have been liquidated." If this data is true, it means that BitMEX's strong liquidation operation has brought more than 5 to the contract market. The market price of 100 million US dollars has a significant positive effect on the market that is being sold out. However, as a compensation, BitMEX also stated that it would contact each damaged user and compensate them according to the maximum potential profit that the investor obtained during the automatic liquidation. In any case, through the operation of exchanges such as BitMEX, the price of bitcoin has entered a recovery channel, and it is still hovering at the $ 5,000 mark, while driving the entire cryptocurrency market to pick up. After this thrilling 24 hours of bitcoin, the ideal "halving market" has disappeared. The real and brutal "halving market" is coming. Perhaps many investors and investment institutions have expressed their confidence in the crypto assets represented by bitcoin. The understanding will change in this regard, and the confidence of the entire industry needs to be rebuilt. This depends on the application value of bitcoin to be deepened.
This is one of the oldest, most well known GPT (Get-Paid-To) sites. They have plenty to offer, so you shouldn't get too bored. You can earn bonus points for meeting your daily goals, and you can earn up to 300 points ($3) for meeting your goal each day. They have one of the largest selections of rewards available, so you should easily find something you like. — Payment Proof. / Is it available in my country? *The site is International, but most earning opportunities are for US, UK, CA and AU.
↪ Get a 300SB ($3) bonus if you sign up through this link and earn 300SB in your first 30 days. Points are awarded the next day after reaching 300SB. ↪ Use signup code REDDIT for a free 70SB bonus for new users. Click “I have a sign up code (optional)” which is underneath the “Confirm Password” Box. ↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Offers: Mobile and Desktop Videos, Surveys, Polls, Offer Walls, Tasks, Special offers, Coupons, Games, Search bar, Limited Time Codes, Download offers, Cash Back from Shopping, Swago (like Bingo) and more. ↪ Payout: [Minimum: $3] Amazon, PayPal, Prepaid VISA, Wal-Mart, PSN, Xbox, Sweepstakes, Charity and many more. TIPS: • Earn up to 300 SB ($3) for meeting your goals for 7, 14, 21 and 30 days in a row. • Once a month you can redeem a $25 gift card for 12% off. • Make up to 10 Swagbucks easily each day by playing games in the Play category. • Click And Earn List to Earn 38 Points Daily Here • Check out /swagbucks and the discord after signing up for up to date info about the best paying offers.
GAIN [US, GB, IE, SE, DE, CA, NL, NO, AU, BE, ES, FR, DK, IT, RU, SG and MY]
Gain is a high paying GPT site that allows you to complete offers, watch videos, complete surveys and more to earn coins. Gain operates in many countries. New users can start out with 100 coins by using this link. — Payment Proof.
↪ Withdrawal options include BTC, ETH, LTC, BCH, CSGOSHOP, Coinbase. Gift cards (through Tango/Rewardlink) also available in certain countries only. ↪ Free daily bonus coins from 10-100 depending on your user level, claim them every 24h on the Gain offerwall ↪ Age minimum: 13+ ↪ No screwy point to dollar conversion ratios. 1,000 coins = $1. ↪ Active, friendly and easily accessible support ↪ Earn extra coins for being one of the top 3 earners each day and each month ↪ Bet your Daily Bonus or your earnings (play responsibly) on roulette by clicking Win TIPS: • Referral Incentive: New users get 100 coins ($0.10). Referring users get 5% of the referred users earnings. • Click on the PayPal Guide link after signing up to learn how to easily convert your earnings from Crypto>PayPal with CoinBase. • 5% Earning Bonus: Sign up to the site with your Steam account and add gain.gg to the end of your steam username to earn a 5% bonus on your earnings. • Offers over 4000 coins are automatically held, message Support Chat (click Support on the top right of the chat box) to have the coins released for you.
GG2U is a GPT (Get-Paid-To) site. The website is a bit outdated looking, and it can feel clunky at times, but don't let that fool you. It has some of the highest paying rates, and has a few unique offer walls and plenty of survey routers that you rarely see on other sites. The customer support is great as well. The owner responds pretty quickly and is always willing to help out. This site is focused on gamers and has some gaming tasks, but there are plenty of things to do for non-gamers as well. — Payment Proof. *The site is International, but most earning opportunities are for US, UK, CA and AU.
↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Offers: Surveys, Offer Walls, Tasks, Videos, Gaming Tasks, and Promotional Link Shortener. ↪ Get paid for listening to the radio (US, CA, UK) ↪ Payout: [Minimum: $7] PayPal, BTC to Coinbase, Amazon, Best Buy, GameStop, Google Play, iTunes, Nintendo eShop, Playstation GC, Steam, Target, Walmart, Xbox GC ↪ Referral Incentive: The referring user earns 5% for life. TIPS: • For every 5 cash out requests, you get a Golden Token which will give you $1-7. This results in an average 7.8% higher payments if cashing out at the minimum each time. • If you contact support, you can request to have your payouts issued at the minimum cashout amount rather than for your full balance. This will let you make the most out of the Golden Tickets.
PrizeRebel is a GPT (Get-Paid-To) site. They have many offer walls and survey providers available. You can earn bonus points for meeting your daily goals, and they have bi-monthly contests that reward the top earners. They also have a Level program that allows you to earn a bigger percentage from your referrals, prize discounts, special bonuses, and automatic prize processing. Level up by earning more points. — Payment Proof. *The site is International, but most earning opportunities are for US, UK, CA and AU.
↪ Age minimum: 16 ↪ Offers: Surveys, Offer Walls, Tasks, Videos, Coupons, and Earning Contests. ↪ Payout: [Minimum: $2] Amazon, PayPal, VISA, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Raffles and many more. ↪ Referral Incentive: 15-30% of what your referrals earn for life. TIPS: • Meet your daily goal each day to earn bonus points.
Fetch is an app available for both Android and iOS where users earn money for scanning receipts and for purchasing specific products or brands. You get points for every receipt from a grocery retailer, supermarket, club wholesaler, home improvement/hardware store, pet store or convenience stores, regardless of what you buy. You can get additional points for purchasing specific products or specific brands. Receipts cannot be more than 2 weeks old. It can also be set it up to passively collect e-receipts. — Payment Proof.
↪ Age minimum: Age of majority in your jurisdiction (Usually this is 18). ↪ Offers: Cash back for scanning receipts and buying specific products or brands. ↪ Payout: [Minimum $3] Amazon, Target, Best Buy, Xbox, Applebee's and many more. ↪ Referral Incentive: Both the referrer and the referred user get $2-5 when they scan their first receipt. The exact amount varies depending on the current promotion. This is close to or above the minimum cash out amount. TIPS: • Make sure to check for rebates on any items you regularly stock up on. • You don’t need to add rebates before purchasing items.
Ibotta is an app available for both Android and iOS that gives cash back for shopping at Ibotta's retail and then scanning your receipts to prove what purchases were made. They currently support around 160 stores. Most offers are for newer brands, but they often have well-known names such as Glade or Kraft. They also regularly have cash back deals for "any item" or "any brand". You can also get cash back for shopping on sites such as Amazon and various services such as meal delivery. — Payment Proof.
↪ Age minimum: 18 ↪ Offers: Cash back. ↪ Payout: [Minimum $20] Paypal, Venmo, Amazon, BestBuy, Starbucks and many more. ↪ Referral: Referred users get a $20 Welcome Bonus after redeeming their first brand name receipt. Referring users get $5 for each referred user who receives their welcome bonus. They also often run bonuses for referring a certain number of users during the month. TIPS:: • Always check for the "Any Item" rebate before scanning a receipt. • Check your account for bonuses. They often have bonuses for redeeming certain groups of rebates or for redeeming a certain number of rebates within a time limit. • You can link your Facebook account in order to participate in teamwork bonuses with friends.
GamerMine is a GPT site founded in January of 2017 that values the experience of their users. With over $115,000 USD paid out to their users over 25,000 withdrawals, they've earned the trust of many members of the beermoney community.
↪ YourSurveys Direct Integration - Complete the highest paying surveys on the market, directly sourced from YourSurveys and tailored to your profiling info. ↪ Steam Reward - Get paid by wearing our brand/gaming with it on Steam. ↪ Daily Bonus - Claim a bonus everyday that scales with your level. More earnings, higher daily free. Top members are earning up to $1.00 USD per day! ↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Inventory/Item System - Earn boosters that can be used whenever you want to increase your earnings on an offer. TIPS: • Leaderboard - Daily/monthly that auto-rewards the highest earners in the period.
Mturk is a platform that allows clients to post a large number of jobs. It is a bit more professional than the typical /beermoney site. You work for "requesters" and they can approve or reject your submitted tasks, also known as HITs. You can earn a lot more money on this site than other typical /beermoney sites, but you need to pay attention to which jobs you accept. Not all HITs pay well. They do require some sensitive information from you for tax purposes. Not everyone gets approved to work here, and some people will be approved months or years after being rejected. — Payment Proof. *This site is international, but most of the tasks are only available for the USA. International users can only redeem Amazon.com balance.
↪ Age minimum: 18 ↪ Offers: A large number of tasks including Surveys, Transcription, Translation, Website Testing, Data Entry and much more. ↪ Payout: [Minimum $0.01] Amazon.com Balance and Amazon Payments Balance. Amazon Payments Balance can be transferred to a bank account. Note: All Amazon Balance is for the USA Amazon.com website regardless of your country. ↪ Referral Incentive: None TIPS: • Only do HITs that pay at least 10¢/minute. This gives you a rate of $6/hour. Mturk crowd forum and /hitsworthturkingfor are good places to check for higher paying HITs. • It is better to return a HIT than to submit to if you are unsure whether the requester will approve it. Returning a HIT will not negatively affect you, but a rejection will. • Scripts are allowed and encouraged. Checked /mturk for more tips and suggestions.
UserTesting is a usability testing site. You get paid to record your screen and speak aloud while performing a number of specified tasks. These tasks are generally related to testing a website or an app, but some tests may have you complete a survey, play a game, test new software, etc. At the start you may receive $3 sample tests, but after a while you will see $10 unmoderated tests. Moderated tests start at $30 per test, and usually require you to have a webcam. Payment arrives via PayPal exactly 7 days after your test is completed. — Payment Proof. *The site is International, but most earning opportunities are for US, UK, CA and AU.
↪ Age minimum: 18 ↪ Offers: Usability testing ↪ Payout: [Minimum: None] PayPal ↪ Referral Incentive: None. TIPS: • Completing the unpaid surveys at the top may qualify you for additional tests. • Make sure to follow instructions carefully, keep talking, and be professional. Keeping a high quality rating is essential if you want to receive plenty of tests.
GetUpside is an app available on both Android and iOS that gives you cash back on gas, groceries and restaurants. You can get up to $0.25 per gallon of gas (or up to $0.50 per gallon twice per day), 15% on groceries, and 35% at restaurants. Some gas stations offer cash back on convenience store purchases, car washes, inspections, oil changes, etc. GetUpside also gives you a map of all the participating gas stations in your area, and you can get additional points for confirming or fixing the prices.
↪ Age Minimum: 13 ↪ Offers: Cashback on gas, groceries and restaurants. ↪ Payout: PayPal ($1 fee if under $15), Check ($1 fee if under $50), Amazon, Home Depot, Target, and many more. [GC Minimum: $10] ↪ Referral Incentive: The referred user gets $0.15-$0.20 off per gallon of gas on their first purchase. The referring user gets $0.01-$0.02 per gallon from direct referrals, and $0.005-$0.01 per gallon for indirect referrals for life. Amount varies per person. As of 05/18/20 (not sure how long it will last) new users who sign up with the link above get a $7-$14(varies per person) bonus if they buy at least $10 worth of gas. TIPS: • You must make your purchase with a debit or credit card. Cash, prepaid cards, gift cards, and EBT are not eligible forms of payment. • You only have 4 hours to make your gas or restaurant purchase after claiming the offer. Grocery offers have 24 hours. All receipts must be scanned within 24 hours from when you claim the offer.
Cash Back From Shopping Online
These sites give cash back on your online purchases. Online purchases require you to click their affiliate link prior to shopping. Ebates US has in-store offers as well. In-store purchases require you to link a debit/credit card and to active the offer prior to shopping. Most of these sites are International, but your shopping opportunities may be limited, and you will only get paid in the associated currency. — Ebates Payment Proof.
TIPS: • Make sure to click on the "Shop Now" or “Get Cashback” button before adding items to your cart. Otherwise, your shopping trip may not count. • You can only use one shopping portal per shopping trip. Attempting to use more than one may cause problems crediting your account. • Disable any ad blockers while shopping. • For US Users: Sometimes you can earn more cash back on Ebates or TopCashBack than the other for a particular store. Check both sites if you want to get the most cash back for each purchase. • For TopCashBack UK Users: New users are automatically enrolled into the Plus membership. Downgrade to the Classic membership to avoid being charged £5/year.
Master Card, PayPal, BACS, Gift Cards, British Airways
Amazon Pay, NEFT, Paytm
PayPal, Amazon, UnionPay
New User Bonus
Some information is missing due to translation difficulties and signup problems. Please let us know if you know any of this missing information.
Sites to Avoid: Definitely DO NOT post these.
✖ Earnsanity — Shady owner, sketchy site. Held giveaway and then refunded the prizes after it was over. History of scamming many others. AVOID AT ALL COSTS UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE SCAMMED. ✖ Paidverts — Shady owner, sketchy site. Keeps doing debt swaps (cash to BAP). Do not post. ✖ Neobux — It isn’t really a scam, but they operate as a pyramid scheme. There’s money to be made online, but it’s definitely not there. ✖ MarketGlory — It does pay out, but the pay is absolutely ridiculous. The only way to make a decent amount of money is to have a lot of referrals, and referral whoring on this subreddit WILL result in a permanent ban. ✖ MindSumo — Not actually a /beermoney site. It’s only spam in this sub. ✖ G2A — Scam/sells stolen keys. ✖ Robinhood — This is spammed on our sub constantly. ✖ Quickthoughts — Many reports of people being banned when trying to withdraw as of 10/2018. Do your due diligence before possibly wasting your time on this app. ✖ Sites with $100+ minimum — These sites usually offer higher than normal payments for simple tasks, with a high minimum to cash out. They are always scams. ✖ Generic news sites that pay you ridiculous amounts to read an article (two euros??) — Common sense should take care of this, but in case it doesn’t, it’s always a scam. The site is usually hosted somewhere in Eastern Europe, and you will never get paid. ✖ Free bitcoin sites/"faucets" (THIS INCLUDES QOINPRO) — This is not referring to those video-viewing/task sites (although they’re still paying fragments of a penny). I’m talking about sites that give you 0.000001BTC to fill a captcha (freebitco.in, dailybitcoins). Admittedly many beermoney sites pay low, but don’t even bother with these. Also: Bitcoin mining is NO LONGER PROFITABLE. If you're really so keen on getting bitcoins, doing so through an exchange is your best option. Here are a few more scam sites and sketchy sites.
Please note that presence on this post does not imply that /beermoney or its moderators endorse the site or their views, actions, or policies. This list simply contains sites that are used by a large number of our users or are frequently mentioned on our subreddit. We frequently monitor data from all the sites on this list from various sources to ensure that users are able and interested in utilizing them and if they do, that they also are getting paid promptly and fairly for all work they do. We make adjustments to this list and the order of sites accordingly based on all the data we receive.
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An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks
Hey guys. Merry Xmas ! I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively. The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow. I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
A. What is required to open an account in a Private bank when you made your fortune through crypto.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise. *The origin of your crypto wealth *Your background (residence, citizenship and probity) These two aspects must be documented in-depth. How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit. 1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start. Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice. 2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand. Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier. The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous. The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here: *proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early. *story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day. *micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning. *signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ? *ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow. The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow: *Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig. *Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful. *Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened. *Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet. *Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time. The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me. The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative. The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point. Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria: *Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk *AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted *Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises... *Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
B. The tax issue I am not a tax specialist, but I can say that this year I have seen it all. Again I am not judging. You made $100m hodling, and still wouldn’t pay your taxes ? Your decision.I personally advise everyone to pay their taxes, but also to be generous, to give to charities. I mean you eventually made it. Good for you. What about you contribute to make the world a better place now? I will stop patronizing you. It’s just my 2cts, and it’s your money.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me. First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards. For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t. EU tricks Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible. Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand. Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really. Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way. Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids? Dubaï
Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
Spend one day every 6 month there
Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen. The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains). The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again. Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly. “Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out. The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
C. The cash out itself So you have accumulated patiently a good amount of wealth. For some of us who have been involved in crypto since 2010, it took years. Remember when BTC was stuck at 200$ for months? I personally feel like it was yesterday. There is no way you screw up your wealth by cashing out in a hurry or with low security standards. Here is how the cash out takes should place.
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;) What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight. The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard. Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp, The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny. Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts. Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks. Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier) Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around. Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary. Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately. The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused. Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them! The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax. The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million. Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction. Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
Transcript of Open Developer Meeting in Discord - 7/19/2019
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 3:58 PM Hey everyone. The channel is now open for the dev meeting. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 3:58 PM Hi TronLast Friday at 3:59 PM Hi all! JerozLast Friday at 3:59 PM :wave: TronLast Friday at 3:59 PM Topics: Algo stuff - x22rc, Ownership token for Restricted Assets and Assets. JerozLast Friday at 4:00 PM @Milo is also here from coinrequest. MiloLast Friday at 4:00 PM Hi :thumbsup: Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:00 PM welcome, @Milo TronLast Friday at 4:00 PM Great. @Milo Was there PRs for Android and iOS? MiloLast Friday at 4:01 PM Yes, I've made a video. Give me a second I'll share it asap. JerozLast Friday at 4:02 PM I missed the iOS one. MiloLast Friday at 4:02 PM Well its 1 video, but meant for all. JerozLast Friday at 4:02 PM Ah, there's an issue but no pull request (yet?) https://github.com/RavenProject/ravenwallet-ios/issues/115 [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:03 PM nice @Milo MiloLast Friday at 4:04 PM Can it be that I have no video post rights? JerozLast Friday at 4:05 PM In discord? MiloLast Friday at 4:05 PM yes? [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:05 PM just a link? JerozLast Friday at 4:05 PM Standard version has a file limit afaik Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:05 PM try now gave permissions MiloLast Friday at 4:05 PM it's not published yet on Youtube, since I didn't knew when it would be published in the wallets file too big. Hold on i'll put it on youtube and set it on private LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:06 PM no worries ipfs it...:yum: Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:06 PM ok, just send link when you can [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:07 PM So guys. We released Ravencoin v2.4.0! JerozLast Friday at 4:08 PM If you like the code. Go update them nodes! :smiley: [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:08 PM We are recommending that you are upgrading to it. It fixes a couple bugs in the code base inherited from bitcoin! MiloLast Friday at 4:08 PM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t\_g7NpFXm6g&feature=youtu.be sorry for the hold up YouTube Coin Request Raven dev Gemiddeld LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:09 PM thanks short and sweet!! KAwARLast Friday at 4:10 PM Is coin request live on the android wallet? TronLast Friday at 4:10 PM Nice video. It isn't in the Play Store yet. Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:10 PM Well, this is the first time in a while where we have this many devs online. What questions do y'all have? LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:11 PM Algo questions? Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:11 PM sure KAwARLast Friday at 4:11 PM KK LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:12 PM what are the proposed 22 algos in x22r? i could only find the original 16 plus 5 on x21. TronLast Friday at 4:12 PM Likely the 5 from x21 and find one more. We need to make sure they're all similar in time profile. liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:14 PM should we bother fixing a asic-problem that we dont know exists for sure or not? TronLast Friday at 4:14 PM That's the 170 million dollar question. [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:14 PM I would prefer to be proactive not reactive. imo JerozLast Friday at 4:14 PM same LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:15 PM RIPEMD160 is a golden oldie but not sure on hash speed compared to the others. liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:15 PM in my mind we should focus on the restricted messaging etc Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:15 PM probably won't know if the action was needed until after you take the action liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:15 PM we are at risk of being interventionistas acting under opacity TronLast Friday at 4:15 PM Needs to spit out at least 256 bit. Preferably 512 bit. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:15 PM ok TronLast Friday at 4:15 PM If it isn't 512 bit, it'll cause some extra headache for the GPU mining software. liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:16 PM i seek to avoid iatrogenics TronLast Friday at 4:16 PM Similar to the early problems when all the algos except the first one were built for 64-bytes (512-bit) inputs. Had to look that one up. TIL iatrogenics JerozLast Friday at 4:17 PM I have to google most of @liqdmetal's vocabulary :smile: liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:17 PM @Tron tldr: basically the unseen, unintended negative side effects of the asic "cure" Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:18 PM 10 dolla word liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:19 PM we need a really strong case to intervene in what has been created. TronLast Friday at 4:19 PM I agree. I'm less concerned with the technical risk than I am the potential split risk experienced multiple times by Monero. Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:20 PM tron do you agree that forking the ravencoin chain presents unique risks compared to other chains that aren't hosting assets? JerozLast Friday at 4:21 PM Yes, if you fork, you need to figure out for each asset which one you want to support. Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:21 PM yeah. and the asset issuer could have a chain preference TronLast Friday at 4:22 PM @Sevvy (y rvn pmp?) Sure. Although, I'd expect that the asset issuers will be honor the assets on the dominant chain. Bigger concern is the branding confusion of multiple forks. See Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin SV for an example. We know they're different, but do non-crypto folks? Hans_SchmidtLast Friday at 4:22 PM I thought that the take-away from the recently published analyses and discussions was that ASICs for RVN may be active, but if so then they are being not much more effective than GPUs. Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:22 PM agreed on all accounts there tron TronLast Friday at 4:23 PM I'm not yet convinced ASICs are on the network. KAwARLast Friday at 4:23 PM It would be better to damage an asic builder by forking after they made major expenses. Creating for them the type of deficit that could be negated by just buying instead of mining. Asic existence should be 100 percent confirmed before fork. liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:23 PM 170million dollar question is right.lol TronLast Friday at 4:24 PM I've had someone offer to connect me to the folks at Fusion Silicon. Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:25 PM yes. and if they are active on the network they are not particularly good ASICs which makes it a moot point probably TronLast Friday at 4:26 PM The difficult part of this problem is that by the time everyone agrees that ASICs are problematic on the network, then voting the option in is likely no longer an option. Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:26 PM yes. part of me wonders if we would say "okay, the clock on the asic countdown is reset by this new algo. but now the race is on" [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:26 PM There are always risks when making a change that will fork the network. We want wait to long though, as tron said. It wont be a voting change. it will be a mandatory change at a block number. Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:26 PM acknowledge the inevitable MiloLast Friday at 4:27 PM I had just a small question from my side. When do you think the android version would be published, and do you maybe have a time-frame for the others? TronLast Friday at 4:27 PM Quick poll. How would everyone here feel about a BIP9 option - separate from the new features that can be voted in? KAwARLast Friday at 4:27 PM Maybe voting should not be a strictly blockchain vote. A republic and a democratic voice? [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:27 PM @Milo We can try and get a beta out next week, and publish soon after that. MiloLast Friday at 4:28 PM @[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs :thumbsup::slight_smile: [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:28 PM BIP9 preemptive vote. I like it. TronLast Friday at 4:30 PM The advantage to a BIP9 vote is that it puts the miners and mining pools at a clear majority before activation. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:30 PM Centralisation is inevitable unless we decide to resist it. ASIC's are market based and know the risks and rewards possible. A key step in resisting is sending a message. An algo change to increase asic resistance is imho a strong message. A BIP9 vote now would also be an indicator of bad actors early.... TronLast Friday at 4:30 PM The disadvantage is that it may not pass if the will isn't there. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:30 PM Before assets are on main net and cause additional issues. KAwARLast Friday at 4:31 PM I am not schooled in coding to have an educated voice. I only understand social problems and how it affects the economy. SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:31 PM All are equal on RVN TronLast Friday at 4:31 PM It is primarily a social problem. The tech change is less risky and is easier than the social. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:32 PM All can have a share....people who want more of a share however pay for the privilege and associated risks. KAwARLast Friday at 4:33 PM Assets and exchange listings need to be consistent and secure. brutoidLast Friday at 4:36 PM I'm still not entirely clear on what the overall goal to the algo change is? Is it just to brick the supposed ASICs (unknown 45%) which could still be FPGAs as seen from the recent block analysis posted in the nest. Is the goal to never let ASICs on? Is it to brick FPGAs ultimately. Are we making Raven strictly GPU only? I'm still unclear LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:37 PM What about the future issue of ASICs returning after a BIP9 fork "soon"? Are all following the WP as a community? i.e asic resistant or are we prepared to change that to asic resistant for early coin emission. Ideally we should plan for the future. Could the community make a statement that no future algo changes will be required to incentivise future public asic manufacturers? Lol. Same question @brutoid brutoidLast Friday at 4:37 PM Haha it is You mind-beamed me! [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:38 PM The is up to the community. Currently, the feel seems like the community is anti asic forever. The main issue is getting people to upgrade. KAwARLast Friday at 4:38 PM Clarity is important. Otherwise we are attacking windmills like Don Quixote. brutoidLast Friday at 4:39 PM I'm not getting the feeling of community ASIC hate if the last few weeks of discussion are anything to go by? Hans_SchmidtLast Friday at 4:39 PM A unilateral non-BIP9 change at a chosen block height is a serious thing, but anti-ASIC has been part of the RVN philosophy since the whitepaper and is therefore appropriate for that purpose. [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:39 PM We can use the latest release as an example. It was a non forking release, announced for 2 weeks. and only ~30% of the network has upgraded. TronLast Friday at 4:39 PM @Hans_Schmidt Well said. liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:40 PM I'm not concerned about a "asic hardware problem" so much as I believe it more likely what we are seeing is several big fish miners (perhaps a single really big fish). For now I recommend standing pat on x16r. In the future I can see an algo upgrade fork to keep the algo up to date. If we start fighting against dedicated x16r hashing machines designed and built to secure our network we are more likely to go down in flames. The custom SHA256 computers that make the bitcoin the most secure network in existence are a big part of that security. If some party has made an asic that performs up to par or better than FPGA or GPU on x16r, that is a positive for this network, a step towards SHA256 security levels. It is too bad the community is in the dark regarding their developments. Therefore I think the community has to clarify its stance towards algorithm changes. I prefer a policy that will encourage the development of mining software, bitstreams and hardware by as many parties as possible. The imminent threat of ALGO fork screws the incentive up for developers. JerozLast Friday at 4:40 PM @brutoid the vocal ones are lenient towards asics, but the outcome of the 600+ votes seemed pretty clear. brutoidLast Friday at 4:40 PM This is my confusion TronLast Friday at 4:41 PM More hashes are only better if the cost goes up proportionally. Machines that do more hashes for less $ doesn't secure the network more, and trends towards centralization. JerozLast Friday at 4:41 PM I would argue for polling ever so often as it certainly will evolve dynamically with the state of crypto over time. TronLast Friday at 4:41 PM Measure security in two dimensions. Distribution, and $/hash. liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:41 PM and volume of hash traysiLast Friday at 4:42 PM 45% of the hashrate going to one party is unhealthy, and standing pat on x16r just keeps that 45% where it is. TronLast Friday at 4:42 PM Volume doesn't matter if the cost goes down. For example, lets say software shows up that does 1000x better than the software from yesterday, and everyone moves to it. That does not add security. Even if the "difficulty" and embedded hashes took 1000x more attempts to find. brutoidLast Friday at 4:42 PM My issue is defintely centralization of hash and not so much what machine is doing it. I mine with both GPU and FPGA. Of course, the FPGAs are not on raven TJayLast Friday at 4:44 PM easy solution is just to replace a few of 16 current hash functions, without messing with x21r or whatever new shit TronLast Friday at 4:44 PM How do folks here feel about allowing CPUs back in the game? traysiLast Friday at 4:44 PM Botnets is my concern with CPUs brutoidLast Friday at 4:44 PM Botnets is my concern SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:44 PM Yes please. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:44 PM the poll votes seem not very security conscious. More of day miners chasing profits. I love them bless! Imho the future is bright for raven, however these issues if not sorted out now will bite hard long term when asset are on the chain and gpu miners are long gone..... ZaabLast Friday at 4:45 PM How has the testing of restricted assets been on the test net? liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:45 PM Agreed. I dont think x16r is obsolete like that yet however [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:45 PM @Zaab not enough testing at the moment. HedgerLast Friday at 4:45 PM Yes, how is the Testing going? justinjjaLast Friday at 4:45 PM Like randomX or how are cpus going to be back in the game? TronLast Friday at 4:45 PM @Zaab Just getting started at testing at the surface level (RPC calls), and fixing as we go. ZaabLast Friday at 4:45 PM And or any updates on the review of dividend code created by the community Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:45 PM if the amount of hash the unknown pool has is fixed as standarderror indicated then waiting for the community of FPGAers to get onto raven might be advantageous if the fork doesn't hurt FPGAs. ZaabLast Friday at 4:45 PM Can't rememeber who was on it SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:45 PM @Zaab But we are working on it... Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:46 PM more hash for votes JerozLast Friday at 4:46 PM @Maldon is, @Zaab TronLast Friday at 4:46 PM @Zaab There are unit tests and functional tests already, but we'd like more. [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:46 PM @Zaab Dividend code is currently adding test cases for better security. Should have more update on that next meeting KAwARLast Friday at 4:46 PM Absolute democracy seems to resemble anarchy or at least civil war. In EVE online they have a type of community voice that get voted in by the community. ZaabLast Friday at 4:46 PM No worries was just curious if it was going as planned or significant issues were being found Obviously some hiccups are expected More testing is always better! TronLast Friday at 4:47 PM Who in here is up for a good civil war? :wink: ZaabLast Friday at 4:47 PM Tron v Bruce. Celebrity fight night with proceeds to go to the RVN dev fund SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:48 PM Cagefight or mudpit? JerozLast Friday at 4:48 PM talking about dev funds..... :wink: Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:49 PM and there goes the conversation.... KAwARLast Friday at 4:49 PM I am trying to be serious... ZaabLast Friday at 4:49 PM Sorry back to the ascii topic! traysiLast Friday at 4:49 PM @Tron What do we need in order to make progress toward a decision on the algo? Is there a plan or a roadmap of sorts to get us some certainty about what we're going to do? LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:50 PM Could we have 3 no BIP9 votes? No1 Friendly to asics, retain status quo. No2 change to x17r minimal changes etc, with no additional future PoW/algo upgrades. No3. Full Asic resistance x22r and see what happens... :thonk~1: Sounds messy.... TronLast Friday at 4:51 PM Right now we're in research mode. We're building CNv4 so we can run some metrics. If that goes well, we can put together x22rc and see how it performs. It will likely gore everyone's ox. CPUs can play, GPUs work, but aren't dominant. ASICs VERY difficult, and FPGAs will have a tough time. ZaabLast Friday at 4:51 PM Yeah i feel like the results would be unreliable TronLast Friday at 4:51 PM Is this good, or do we lose everyone's vote? PlayHardLast Friday at 4:52 PM Fpga will be dead Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:52 PM why isn;t a simple XOR or something on the table? ZaabLast Friday at 4:52 PM The multiple bip9 that is Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:52 PM something asic breaking but doesn't greatly complicate ongoing efforts for FPGA being my point. justinjjaLast Friday at 4:52 PM How are you going to vote for x22rc? Because if by hashrate that wouldn't pass. traysiLast Friday at 4:52 PM Personally I like the idea of x22rc but I'd want to investigate the botnet threat if CPUs are allowed back in. TronLast Friday at 4:52 PM XOR is on the table, and was listed in my Medium post. But, the social risk of chain split remains, for very little gain. traysiLast Friday at 4:53 PM @Lokar -=Kai=- A small change means that whoever has 45% can probably quickly adapt. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:53 PM Research sounds good. x22rc could be reduce to x22r for simplicity... TronLast Friday at 4:53 PM x22r is a viable option. No CNv4. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:53 PM Don't know how much time we have to play with though... Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:53 PM if they have FPGAs yes if they have ASIC then not so much, but I guess that gets to the point, what exactly are we trying to remove from the network? PlayHardLast Friday at 4:54 PM Guys my name is Arsen and we designed x16r fpga on bcus. Just about to release it to the public. I am buzzdaves partner. Cryptonight Will kill us But agreed Asic is possible on x16r And you dont need 256 core Cores traysiLast Friday at 4:55 PM Hi Arsen. Are you saying CN will kill "us" meaning RVN, or meaning FPGA? JerozLast Friday at 4:55 PM This is what im afraid of ^ an algo change killing FPGA as I have the feeling there is a big fpga community working on this PlayHardLast Friday at 4:55 PM Fpgas )) whitefire990Last Friday at 4:55 PM I am also about to release X16R for CVP13 + BCU1525 FPGA's. I'm open to algo changes but I really don't believe in CPU mining because of botnets. Any CNv4 shifts 100% to CPU mining, even if it is only 1 of the 22 functions. Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:55 PM namely FPGAs that aren;t memory equipped like fast mem not ddr PlayHardLast Friday at 4:55 PM Hbm non hbm Cryptonight whitefire990Last Friday at 4:56 PM Right now with both Buzzdave/Altered Silicon and myself (Zetheron) about to release X16R for FPGA's, then the 45% miner's share will decrease to 39% or less. PlayHardLast Friday at 4:56 PM Will be dead for fpga LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:56 PM sound so x22r is fpga "friendly" ... more so than asic anyway... PlayHardLast Friday at 4:56 PM But a change must be planned X16r is no way possible to avoid asics TJayLast Friday at 4:56 PM @LSJI07 - MBIT I would say less friendly... whitefire990Last Friday at 4:57 PM As I mentioned in thenest discussion, asic resistance increases with the square of the number of functions, so X21R is more asic resistant than X16R, but both are pretty resistant PlayHardLast Friday at 4:58 PM Yeah more algos make it heavier on ASIC DirkDiggler (Citadel Architect)Last Friday at 4:58 PM My interpretation of the whitepaper was that we used x16r as it was brand new (thus ASIC resistant), and that was to ensure a fair launch... We've launched... I don't like the idea of constantly forking to avoid the inevitable ASICs. x16r was a great "experiment" before we had any exchange listings... that ship has sailed though... not sure about all these x22rs lmnop changes KAwARLast Friday at 5:00 PM I believe that it is easier to change the direction of a bicycle than an oil tanker. We feel more like a train. We should lay out new tracks and test on them and find benefits that are acceptable to everyone except train robbers. Then open the new train station with no contentious feelings except a silently disgruntled minority group. ??? Hans_SchmidtLast Friday at 5:01 PM The most productive action the community can do now re ASICs is to voice support for the devs to make a non-BIP9 change at a chosen block height if/when the need is clear. That removes the pressure to act rashly to avoid voting problems. LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 5:01 PM Thats why im proposing to fork at least once to a more asic resistant algo (but FPGA "friendly/possible"), with the proviso ideally that no more PoW algo forks are require to provide future ASICs some opportunity to innovate with silicon and efficiency. TJayLast Friday at 5:01 PM folks should take into account, that high end FPGAs like BCU1525 on x16r can't beat even previous gen GPUs (Pascal) in terms of hash cost. so they aren't a threat to miners community PlayHardLast Friday at 5:02 PM A proper change Requires proper research eyz (Silence)Last Friday at 5:02 PM Just so I'm clear here, we are trying to boot ASICS, don't want CPUs because of Botnets, and are GPU and FPGA friendly right? PlayHardLast Friday at 5:02 PM It is not a quick one day process eyz (Silence)Last Friday at 5:02 PM If there is a bip9 vote there needs to be a clear explanation as I feel most in the community don't understand exactly what we are trying to fix TronLast Friday at 5:03 PM @Hans_Schmidt I like that route. It has some game theoretics. It gives time for miners to adapt. It is only used if needed. It reduces the likelihood of ASICs dominating the network, or even being built. [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 5:03 PM Hey guys. great convo. We are of course looking to do the best thing for the community and miner. We are going to be signing off here though. justinjjaLast Friday at 5:03 PM TJay that comes down to power cost. If your paying 4c/kw gpus all the way. But if your a home miner in europe an fpga is your only chance LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 5:03 PM @Hans_Schmidt How do we decide the block limit and when sufficient evidence is available? I would say we have had much compelling information to date... [Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 5:03 PM Thanks for participating. and keep up the good work :smiley: Have a good weekend. CAWWWW TronLast Friday at 5:03 PM I haven't seen any compelling evidence of ASICs - yet. Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 5:03 PM :v: JerozLast Friday at 5:04 PM I suggest to continue discussion in #development and #thenest :smiley: thanks all! TronLast Friday at 5:04 PM Cheers everyone! KAwARLast Friday at 5:04 PM Agree with Hans. DirkDiggler (Citadel Architect)Last Friday at 5:04 PM thanks Tron Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 5:04 PM Ending here. continue in Nest if wanted DirkDiggler (Citadel Architect)Last Friday at 5:04 PM I am waiting for compelling evidence myself.
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